The world does not revolve around Limited to the point that this card is justified at Rare.
By that logic, any and all good Uncommons should be Rare.
Since when is conditional removal at Uncommon ruining Drafts?
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Except that it's actually more vulnerable to removal, because it's vulnerable to both enchantment removal and land destruction.
I never quite understood this idea. How much land destruction to people play in either limited or constructed right now? Do you really think ppl will start playing Land Destruction in their sideboard just to counter this? LOL. Come on guys, the fact that it is attached to a mountain is hardly gonna make any difference in how good this is.
Obviously, I'm exaggerating the difference here for effect, but Flinthoof Boar is obviously only considered if you have Mountains.
I never really implied that decks outside of Boros or minor third splash decks were going to play it (and that's not a bad thing). Once again, it just happens that Chained to the Rocks just spells out explicitly what archetypes to play it in. A lot of other cards have the same limits, but not as explicitly. The explicitness of the card isn't a bad thing, because it's due to flavour.
It's a solid card and a role-player - not superb, not bad either.
I agree, this card isn't bad (if you're in boros). But, this card is very narrow. It can only be played in RW or in RWx (and even then it may be inconsistent depending on the duals available). Lets compare to a another multicolor removal, abrupt decay. Abrupt decay is good in GB, GBx, XBg, GXb, and even some 4 or 5 color control decks.
It is a bad thing that chained to the rocks is unplayable outside boros.
Your comparison to flinthoof boar is inaccurate because you don't need mountains in play cast flinthoof Boar. I could cast it t2 and get lucky and draw a mountain t3 and have gotten all my value out of the boar. In limited, flinthoof can be played in any green deck as a bear without a problem. There is simply no reliable way to use chained to the rocks without being solidly in R and W.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
It is a bad thing that chained to the rocks is unplayable outside boros.
.
why is that? i actualy like cards which are not played in any deck because they can be splashed easily. like thragtusk for example.. who was just put in every single deck which could somehow play green.
i REALLY really wish we would get more cards for specificaly 1 deck and nothing else.
I find it baffling that Boros gets a 1 mana Exile Target Creature and everyone is complaining about how bad the card is.
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For the power level of this card, yes I believe that the "drawback" of requiring you to have a mountain in play to use this is perfectly fine. 1 mana removal spell is STILL strong, and it doesn't give your opponent life/land/etc. Sure you need both a mountain AND a white source, but luckily those BOTH exist in Sacred Foundry, and with the many shocks in RTR currently, I don't think it is much of a drawback. Yes, it 'is' one, but not one I would complain about.
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I find it baffling that Boros gets a 1 mana Exile Target Creature and everyone is complaining about how bad the card is.
Yeah, me too. Interesting, flavorful card. Not everything can be played everywhere. Cards restricted to certain areas (and this isn't even that restricted) only opens up design space.
I find it baffling that Boros gets a 1 mana Exile Target Creature and everyone is complaining about how bad the card is.
It's actually a *great* card if you're playing Boros,
but Boros didn't exactly need the boost- it was already doing just fine.
I wish they had made it Island for that reason alone.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I don't know what would make me more angry, this mechanically nonsensical card, or just reprinting journey to nowhere at rare, because this is generally a worse journey to nowhere...
The flavor is spoiled by the rarity for me, so I don't want to hear crap about flavor.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
I wish they had made it Island for that reason alone.
But Islands are branded as the signs or pure evil! Home to non-interactive counterspells, snapcasters, delvers and the "one" planeswalker, some ppl think they are already overpowered because they tap for U without any drawback.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I'm guessing this is for control decks and not boros aggro. One complaint has been Control is too slow vs. aggro and this helps buy them time on turn 1 and 2.
This isn't about power level. This card could warp draft and force too many players to WR if printed at common/uncommon. I do think wizards are overreacting about "healthy limited environment" lately though.
Considering it's been resulting in some awesome limited environments, I don't think they've overreacted at all.
But Islands are branded as the signs or pure evil! Home to non-interactive counterspells, snapcasters, delvers and the "one" planeswalker, some ppl think they are already overpowered because they tap for U without any drawback.
Yes, obviously Wizards went back in time and changed the myth of Prometheus so they could deny blue a card.
I don't know what would make me more angry, this mechanically nonsensical card, or just reprinting journey to nowhere at rare, because this is generally a worse journey to nowhere...
The flavor is spoiled by the rarity for me, so I don't want to hear crap about flavor.
You aren't even paying attention to the flavor. You're just whining about rarity.
But Islands are branded as the signs or pure evil! Home to non-interactive counterspells, snapcasters, delvers and the "one" planeswalker, some ppl think they are already overpowered because they tap for U without any drawback.
Seriously. If this card "enchant Island", half of the people around here would have a stroke.
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The downside of this card, except for the mountain restriction, is that it's going to be played in a metagame where a lot of decks will probably maindeck enchantment removal, and I think it will be shoved in a lot of decks that are light on enchantments, so it's going to get removed a lot. Still a good deal for W, and Boros Charm can protect it.
I don't see the problem with the mountain restriction, not every card is made to be put in every deck that can cast it. It would be too expensive at RW, and it would be too good at :symrw:. This means that not every deck that plays white will be able to use a one mana Journey. Would we really want that?
I couldn't agree more, though, that it's kinda sketchy that so many straight up removal spells are printed at rare these days. This, Dreadbore, Abrupt Decay, Counterflux, Render Silent and Detention Sphere don't feel rare to me. Would they print Doom Blade and Putrefy at rare today if they hadn't been printed at lower rarities before? If they did, we would all think that it would be pretty outrageous, but what's the big difference between those and Dreadbore?
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
The downside of this card, except for the mountain restriction, is that it's going to be played in a metagame where a lot of decks will probably maindeck enchantment removal, and I think it will be shoved in a lot of decks that are light on enchantments, so it's going to get removed a lot. Still a good deal for W, and Boros Charm can protect it.
I don't see the problem with the mountain restriction, not every card is made to be put in every deck that can cast it. It would be too expensive at RW, and it would be too good at :symrw:. This means that not every deck that plays white will be able to use a one mana Journey. Would we really want that?
I couldn't agree more, though, that it's kinda sketchy that so many straight up removal spells are printed at rare these days. This, Dreadbore, Abrupt Decay, Counterflux, Render Silent and Detention Sphere don't feel rare to me. Would they print Doom Blade and Putrefy at rare today if they hadn't been printed at lower rarities before? If they did, we would all think that it would be pretty outrageous, but what's the big difference between those and Dreadbore?
To be honest, I believe that Dreadbore is a rare because it is the first card ever printed to say "Destroy target planeswalker"...a phrase that R&D had to test the waters with first and foremost. It was also unconditional removal for black that hit any creature (ala Murder). Those two factors combined pretty much assured that it would be rare. Now, in say 5 years, would it be rare? I'd guess not. But for the time being, when all formats are considered (especially limited..a format that a handful of GPs always uses each year), they have to ask themselves if card X should be uncommon or rare? It's the reason that doom blade got a bump. It will never (should never) be a card that has an uncommon value ($$) as we probably have dozens upon dozens at common, but it had to show up with a little more infrequency to prevent the more than 2x doom blade decks from running wild in limited.
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"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
dreadbore feels stronger than doomblade, because it destroys any creature or planeswalker.
while doomblade cant destroy planeswalkers and black creatures.
also Ultimate Price is uncommon too, so i doubt that doomblade would be rare if it would be the first time now.
only the best removals are rare. while everything else stays uncommon or common. im fine with that to be honest.
Boros didn't exactly need the boost- it was already doing just fine.
I wish they had made it Island for that reason alone.
People on this forum keep writing how strong Boros is, Boros is OP, Boros is pushed, WotC favours Boros ... can someone please point me to a competitive RW decklist? Because I really don't see it.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
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By that logic, any and all good Uncommons should be Rare.
Since when is conditional removal at Uncommon ruining Drafts?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I never quite understood this idea. How much land destruction to people play in either limited or constructed right now? Do you really think ppl will start playing Land Destruction in their sideboard just to counter this? LOL. Come on guys, the fact that it is attached to a mountain is hardly gonna make any difference in how good this is.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Um why/in what format does it lose Sphere? That's a RtR card...
I agree, this card isn't bad (if you're in boros). But, this card is very narrow. It can only be played in RW or in RWx (and even then it may be inconsistent depending on the duals available). Lets compare to a another multicolor removal, abrupt decay. Abrupt decay is good in GB, GBx, XBg, GXb, and even some 4 or 5 color control decks.
It is a bad thing that chained to the rocks is unplayable outside boros.
Your comparison to flinthoof boar is inaccurate because you don't need mountains in play cast flinthoof Boar. I could cast it t2 and get lucky and draw a mountain t3 and have gotten all my value out of the boar. In limited, flinthoof can be played in any green deck as a bear without a problem. There is simply no reliable way to use chained to the rocks without being solidly in R and W.
- Manite
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130226175543AAynaEu
why is that? i actualy like cards which are not played in any deck because they can be splashed easily. like thragtusk for example.. who was just put in every single deck which could somehow play green.
i REALLY really wish we would get more cards for specificaly 1 deck and nothing else.
I stepped out of a supernova...and so did you.
Thank Heroes of the Plane for an awesome banner!
Currently Playing:
Standard
RWBGFritesGBWR
GBBG ZombiesBG
Extended:
lolno
Gleemax shall take over the world. Go Gleemax.:D
Yeah, me too. Interesting, flavorful card. Not everything can be played everywhere. Cards restricted to certain areas (and this isn't even that restricted) only opens up design space.
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It's actually a *great* card if you're playing Boros,
but Boros didn't exactly need the boost- it was already doing just fine.
I wish they had made it Island for that reason alone.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
The flavor is spoiled by the rarity for me, so I don't want to hear crap about flavor.
Feel free to tell me yours!
But Islands are branded as the signs or pure evil! Home to non-interactive counterspells, snapcasters, delvers and the "one" planeswalker, some ppl think they are already overpowered because they tap for U without any drawback.
Also Quicken will suck now that past turn 5, Supreme verdict is now an instant...argh.
That and I'm surprised Tajic, Blade of the Legion hasn't been introduced into a USA control deck...don't think control is dead afterall...
Considering it's been resulting in some awesome limited environments, I don't think they've overreacted at all.
Yes, obviously Wizards went back in time and changed the myth of Prometheus so they could deny blue a card.
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
You aren't even paying attention to the flavor. You're just whining about rarity.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Seriously. If this card "enchant Island", half of the people around here would have a stroke.
EDH: Captain Sisay Tokens
Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
EDH: Captain Sisay Tokens
Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
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I don't see the problem with the mountain restriction, not every card is made to be put in every deck that can cast it. It would be too expensive at RW, and it would be too good at :symrw:. This means that not every deck that plays white will be able to use a one mana Journey. Would we really want that?
I couldn't agree more, though, that it's kinda sketchy that so many straight up removal spells are printed at rare these days. This, Dreadbore, Abrupt Decay, Counterflux, Render Silent and Detention Sphere don't feel rare to me. Would they print Doom Blade and Putrefy at rare today if they hadn't been printed at lower rarities before? If they did, we would all think that it would be pretty outrageous, but what's the big difference between those and Dreadbore?
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
To be honest, I believe that Dreadbore is a rare because it is the first card ever printed to say "Destroy target planeswalker"...a phrase that R&D had to test the waters with first and foremost. It was also unconditional removal for black that hit any creature (ala Murder). Those two factors combined pretty much assured that it would be rare. Now, in say 5 years, would it be rare? I'd guess not. But for the time being, when all formats are considered (especially limited..a format that a handful of GPs always uses each year), they have to ask themselves if card X should be uncommon or rare? It's the reason that doom blade got a bump. It will never (should never) be a card that has an uncommon value ($$) as we probably have dozens upon dozens at common, but it had to show up with a little more infrequency to prevent the more than 2x doom blade decks from running wild in limited.
An actor without a director is but a mannequin.
While a director without a writer is unemployed.
But ultimately a writer without words is dead.
~R. D. Newman
"7,015 creatures in existence. They all die to removal."
Never before has a boy wanted more...zombie slaying.
GP Vegas: It was once in a lifetime!
On Vault of the Archangel
while doomblade cant destroy planeswalkers and black creatures.
also Ultimate Price is uncommon too, so i doubt that doomblade would be rare if it would be the first time now.
only the best removals are rare. while everything else stays uncommon or common. im fine with that to be honest.
They're complaining about how bad it is because it's bad. Can we get back, like, Oust?
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
I would not consider the best answer to gods in RW, or to any other creature they can't just burn, a bad card.
People on this forum keep writing how strong Boros is, Boros is OP, Boros is pushed, WotC favours Boros ... can someone please point me to a competitive RW decklist? Because I really don't see it.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'