Is their goal to errata every card from The Dark? Lavinia and Suppression Field do not need to impact Gaea's Touch--it's a poor man's forest-y Exploration. Leave it alone.
Interesting time to adjust the reminder text for Convoke when folks are speculating on it being the returning mechanic for Theros.
Makes me wonder if the fact that they're doing it now (rather than waiting for the Theros update) actually makes it less likely that's it's coming back...
Matt Tabak hinted at the change to the expansion symbol rules about a year and a half ago on the Rules Theory and Templating forum on the mothership. Surprised it took until now to happen. The expansion hosers aren't *quite* as limited anymore.
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The change to Gaea's Touch really doesn't make sense, especially after all the rigamarole involved with updating the rules regarding additional land plays. Given the old Oracle errata, it fit perfectly with what they're changing the rules to in this update.
Next thing you know, they'll be saying Dark Ritual can be countered because it's no longer considered a mana source. For those who haven't been playing that long, Dark Ritual has had three card types: Interrupt, Mana Source, then Instant.
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The change to Gaea's Touch really doesn't make sense, especially after all the rigamarole involved with updating the rules regarding additional land plays. Given the old Oracle errata, it fit perfectly with what they're changing the rules to in this update.
Next thing you know, they'll be saying Dark Ritual can be countered because it's no longer considered a mana source. For those who haven't been playing that long, Dark Ritual has had three card types: Interrupt, Mana Source, then Instant.
Not sure if serious but dark ritual can be countered because it is not a mana source, it's an instant.
errata to Gaea's Touch actually matches the original text, which put the land into play; it didn't say you can play an extra land. furthermore, as activated ability, it's actually more abusable now. you can bring it back as many times as you want and still "play" a forest. which the new rule actually forbid other cards like Exploration.
It does say "instant" on the page you linked, or were you trying to make some other point?
One: There's White Text on my last post.
Two: The Urza's Saga version of Dark Ritual (like the Mirage, Fifth Edition, and Tempest versions) have "Mana Source" printed on the type line, with Errata changing the cards to Instants.
Two: The Urza's Saga version of Dark Ritual (like the [url=http://magiccards.info/mr/en/14.html]Dark Ritual[/url]Mirage[/url], [url=http://magiccards.info/5e/en/15.html]Dark Ritual[/url]Fifth Edition[/url], and [url=http://magiccards.info/tp/en/12.html]Dark Ritual[/url]Tempest[/url] versions) have "Mana Source" printed on the type line, with Errata changing the cards to Instants.
I saw, I know, and I was actually directing my comment toward the person I quoted.
They did not close that loophole, they're just printing new cards that have different wording, so that loophole doesn't exist with those cards.
This isn't what it sounded like when I read it:
To fix this, rule 610.3a says that the initial one-shot effect that moves the object won't move it if the specified event that returns it has already occurred. So, the "stack loophole" doesn't work.
The change has no effect on existing O-Ring styled cards. All cards of this type moving forward will follow the new template and can't abuse the loophole.
I wonder why the change to convoke was necessary. It's not like over tapping for convoke (or over exiling for delve) was running rampant and causing problems.
The Delve change has a minor impact on Tombstalker in legacy. When it was a cost reduction, you could exile your whole graveyard, say to weaken a Tarmogoyf.
The expansion symbol change was a long time coming and I am very happy about it.
The change has no effect on existing O-Ring styled cards. All cards of this type moving forward will follow the new template and can't abuse the loophole.
I wonder why the change to convoke was necessary. It's not like over tapping for convoke (or over exiling for delve) was running rampant and causing problems.
it might have something to do with the original text saying "reduce the cost". that might cause issues with stuff like "counter target spell with mana cost <3". by changing to the new text they avoid this kind of confusion.
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
it might have something to do with the original text saying "reduce the cost". that might cause issues with stuff like "counter target spell with mana cost <3". by changing to the new text they avoid this kind of confusion.
That wasn't ever an issue. The converted mana cost of a convoked spell doesn't change no matter how many creatures you tap for it. Anything that looks for a spell with a certain CMC doesn't care how much you actually spent for it.
I do wonder if Nix can still counter a spell that has been convoked completely (say Gather Courage via a tapped green creature). I want to say no longer.
i'm at work, and my access to some sites is blocked, can someone explain to me what your all talking about in regards to the "expansion symbol change" thanks
A card's expansion symbol is no longer a characteristic. The three cards that used to care about expansion symbols; City in a Bottle, Golgothian Sylex, and Apocalypse Chime; will receive errata to instead look for cards originally printed in the appropriate expansion. The article uses Bird Maiden as an example: a 4th Edition Bird Maiden avoided City in a Bottle before but a Arabian Nights Bird Maiden did not. Now no matter what version of Bird Maidan you use it gets hit by City in a Bottle.
The Arabian Nights Mountain now avoids City in a Bottle because its original printing wasn't Arabian Nights.
errata to Gaea's Touch actually matches the original text, which put the land into play; it didn't say you can play an extra land. furthermore, as activated ability, it's actually more abusable now. you can bring it back as many times as you want and still "play" a forest. which the new rule actually forbid other cards like Exploration.
The original wording on Gaea's Touch matched the original wording on Fastbond, but now Gaea's Touch is an activated ability while Fastbond is still a static one. I guess sometimes they have to be inconsistent with the really old cards to make them work under modern rules.
I'm personally intrigued by the changes to exiled card references (mostly for Imprint and Strionic Resonator). Now that "the exiled card" refers to all cards exiled that way, things like Elite Arcanist can use multiple spells at once (for more mana), but more importantly, Isochron Scepter can give you double the spells for the same cost. Seems pretty sweet to me.
Set symbols not mattering makes me sad. I always thought is was a fun and underutilized design space. Hopefully it doesn't preclude rarity matters in some future mechanic.
i'm at work, and my access to some sites is blocked, can someone explain to me what your all talking about in regards to the "expansion symbol change" thanks
Expansion symbols are no longer a characteristic. Magic cards are recognized as individual game pieces by their English card names. One of the central tenets of that system is that all cards with the same name are considered the same for deck building and play purposes. This system lets us reprint cards, print promo cards, and have cards appear in many languages. But three older cards referred to cards from a specific expansion, and that runs contrary to the system. The Arabian Nights Bird Maiden and the Fourth Edition version should be the same, but City in a Bottle says they're not. In fact, it makes the original version worse!
So, cards will no longer refer to expansion symbol as a characteristic. The three cards that used to do this (City in a Bottle, Golgothian Sylex, and Apocalypse Chime) will receive errata in a future update to refer to cards "originally printed" in the Arabian Nights, Antiquities, and Homelands sets, respectively). This means that City in a Bottle no longer affects any cards named Mountain. It also means that those three cards can affect cards that were in the appropriate set and then reprinted. City in a Bottle will affect the aforementioned Fourth Edition Bird Maiden.
References to expansion symbol being a characteristic were removed in several other rules as well.
Quote:
To fix this, rule 610.3a says that the initial one-shot effect that moves the object won't move it if the specified event that returns it has already occurred. So, the "stack loophole" doesn't work.
Because it sure seems like when there is a rules update, and a new 'rule' is added, that it would apply to the 'rules' of the game. However, people are saying that the 'rules' don't apply to o-ring? Why would that be?
Is their goal to errata every card from The Dark? Lavinia and Suppression Field do not need to impact Gaea's Touch--it's a poor man's forest-y Exploration. Leave it alone.
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(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Makes me wonder if the fact that they're doing it now (rather than waiting for the Theros update) actually makes it less likely that's it's coming back...
Next thing you know, they'll be saying Dark Ritual can be countered because it's no longer considered a mana source. For those who haven't been playing that long, Dark Ritual has had three card types: Interrupt, Mana Source, then Instant.
Not sure if serious but dark ritual can be countered because it is not a mana source, it's an instant.
It does say "instant" on the page you linked, or were you trying to make some other point?
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One: There's White Text on my last post.
Two: The Urza's Saga version of Dark Ritual (like the Mirage, Fifth Edition, and Tempest versions) have "Mana Source" printed on the type line, with Errata changing the cards to Instants.
I saw, I know, and I was actually directing my comment toward the person I quoted.
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This isn't what it sounded like when I read it:
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The change has no effect on existing O-Ring styled cards. All cards of this type moving forward will follow the new template and can't abuse the loophole.
I wonder why the change to convoke was necessary. It's not like over tapping for convoke (or over exiling for delve) was running rampant and causing problems.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The expansion symbol change was a long time coming and I am very happy about it.
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it might have something to do with the original text saying "reduce the cost". that might cause issues with stuff like "counter target spell with mana cost <3". by changing to the new text they avoid this kind of confusion.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
That wasn't ever an issue. The converted mana cost of a convoked spell doesn't change no matter how many creatures you tap for it. Anything that looks for a spell with a certain CMC doesn't care how much you actually spent for it.
I do wonder if Nix can still counter a spell that has been convoked completely (say Gather Courage via a tapped green creature). I want to say no longer.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
A card's expansion symbol is no longer a characteristic. The three cards that used to care about expansion symbols; City in a Bottle, Golgothian Sylex, and Apocalypse Chime; will receive errata to instead look for cards originally printed in the appropriate expansion. The article uses Bird Maiden as an example: a 4th Edition Bird Maiden avoided City in a Bottle before but a Arabian Nights Bird Maiden did not. Now no matter what version of Bird Maidan you use it gets hit by City in a Bottle.
The Arabian Nights Mountain now avoids City in a Bottle because its original printing wasn't Arabian Nights.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
In Commander, a Golgothian Sylex now nukes Urzatron, Mishra's Factory, etc. Even if they're reprints. I bet it might show up more often.
As for the Apocalypse Chime? lol, who uses Homeland cards?
The original wording on Gaea's Touch matched the original wording on Fastbond, but now Gaea's Touch is an activated ability while Fastbond is still a static one. I guess sometimes they have to be inconsistent with the really old cards to make them work under modern rules.
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From the Magic 2014 Update Bulletin: Comprehensive Rulebook Changes:
Can someone clarify this for me,
Quote:
To fix this, rule 610.3a says that the initial one-shot effect that moves the object won't move it if the specified event that returns it has already occurred. So, the "stack loophole" doesn't work.
Because it sure seems like when there is a rules update, and a new 'rule' is added, that it would apply to the 'rules' of the game. However, people are saying that the 'rules' don't apply to o-ring? Why would that be?