If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
But, again, tackling card availability is tackling the price problem. If they say "We want cards to be more readily available to players, so we're printing more of them," what they're essentially saying is "We want the cards to be cheaper, so people can more easily afford them."
All cards are "available" if you're willing to pay the price. Making a card more available means printing more of it, which makes it less scarce, which lowers the price.
TL;DR: Making a card more available means making it cheaper.
Older sets (everything pre Zendikar) had far smaller print runs than sets Zendikar forward. There really are fewer copies of those cards available to purchase/trade for/play with. The pre Zendikar cutoff for Modern Masters was not accidental or arbitrary, but chosen because the cards from those sets needed more circulation to keep up with their desired level of demand for the format. If they fail at increasing the demand for the format by the printing of modern masters then yes, prices will drop, but they have never made any direct claim of having price reduction as a desirable outcome.
Disappointing, but totally expected. When I heard about Modern Masters I really had hopes that it would open up another format to me, but I see now that it's the same false hope that Commander's Arsenal provided.
It's worse than Commander's Arsenal, at least CA is completely useless unless you really wanted to play mono-G, this MM **** is pissing on everyone who expected to be able to play Goyf, Bob, Thoughtseize, Vendillion, etc for less than $50/100 a piece since they're making them ultra-rares in an already ultra-rare product.
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Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
No other invitational card (aside from SCM) is as widely played as bob. (And far more SCMs were printed than Bobs...)
No other invitational card is too powerful to reprint for standard.
It doesn't matter that bob is or isn't an invitational card when looking at what makes it mythic.
It matters that the effect on the card is too powerful for standard, and cards have been printed at rare that try to emulate it but are worse, and one card with the effect that hits both players is mythic.
But MM isn't Standard-legal, so what does that matter? The fact it's too good for Standard just means it can't come back in a regular Block/Core Set, it doesn't mean Bob (or Goyf, for that matter) couldn't have been Rare in MM.
I mean, it's not that they can't be justified as Mythics, or that they don't feel closer to Mythic than Rare. It's the fact that they have been assigned to the Mythic slot for one reason: to market the set. But they are Modern *staples*, they aren't cards one runs 2 or 3 copies of for any reason other than card availability. If they were indeed conscious about making the truly expensive Modern staples more affordable, they wouldn't reprint them at Mythic.
They guy above me nailed it, Bob and Goyf (and Clique and a few others) are the rarest they can be, at the rarest set we are getting. And Modern players need 4 copies of each, period. To me this feels like the complete opposite of "let's make these cards more affordable to our players". A $5-10 discount per Bob/Goyf (which is what I'm projecting) isn't going to place tons of people into Modern.
I feel obligated to point out that just because that's the way it's always been is one of the worst possible reasons to do something, and the folks at Wizards seem well aware of that.
Erm, did YOU read the article? Nowhere in the article you linked to do they say they are trying to reduce the prices on cards.
Yes! Thank you! I just now decided to slowly read the article so I can pick up what he was trying to lead to, but in the article they mentioned they didn't respect the amount of reprinting they did, which implies they don't want to hurt prices by bringing them down. If anything, they're trying to put a cap on prices.
They should change his flavour text to: "A hand with four cards in it! Not one or two or three but four! Four cards! What the hell am I supposed to do with an empty hand?"
This wins the thread, easily. My sides, oh my sides
But MM isn't Standard-legal, so why does that matter? The fact it's too good for Standard just means it can't come back, it doesn't mean Bob (or Goyf, for that matter) couldn't have been Rare in MM.
I mean, it's not that they can't be justified as Mythics, or even that they aren't closer to Mythic than Rare. It's the fact that they have been assigned the Mythic slot to market the set. But they are Modern *staples*, they aren't cards one runs 2 or 3 copies of for any reason other than card availability. If they were conscious about making the truly expensive Modern staples more affordable, they wouldn't reprint them at Mythic.
As has been said in the thread, they are printing more copies of the card.
They are not trying to fix prices.
Bob has a judge promo. That did nothing to help his price. I'm not sure how many judge promos are made, but I would hazard a guess that a mythic in this set would be opened at a rate of AT LEAST twice that.
Mythic slots in this set was a catch-22.
They either put the valuable cards at mythic
or
They put total garbage in the slots. (Lorwyn 5 with new art, Akroma and red Akroma, etc)
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Anyone who this the mythics in this set aren't the high value cards is nuts. Spoiler: cryptic command, vendilion clique and thoughtseize will be mythic.
well the set still has alot of slots for good common and uncommon
also
putting money cards in MR spot will help a bit new players to enter in the format and without alot of collectors crying for they cards' price going down
due to the printrun and the rarity of staples soo this can led them to make a MM2, MM3 and in some of then reprint some of the cards in the MR spot from 1th MM soo More tarmos and bobs more CC more VC more ThoughtS ....
I only hope that the print run and they pack' prices where larger and cheap
Mythic slots in this set was a catch-22.
They either put the valuable cards at mythic
or
They put total garbage in the slots. (Lorwyn 5 with new art, Akroma and red Akroma, etc)
would it have been possible to not have mythic slots in the new set since only 3 of the sets covered by modern masters had mythic rares? or maybe had the cut off be eventide so that they could have justified not having mythic rares?
I have a feeling that any modern staple rare will be mythic, any staple modern uncommon will be rare and any staple modern common will be uncommon. The rest will be limited draft crap. Wizards is in for quite a bit of backlash.
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My love of lands knows no bounds.
Currently playing: GCasual 8-post R Casual Land Destruction UBRWG Legacy Dredge WGB Modern Melira Pod RUG EDH
I have a feeling that any modern staple rare will be mythic, any staple modern uncommon will be rare and any staple modern common will be uncommon. The rest will be limited draft crap. Wizards is in for quite a bit of backlash.
My thoughts exactly.Which is a problem.A big problem,because the boxes only contain 24 boosters(ie 24 rares,possibly not even a single mythic).This means that 90% of the box will be filled with crap that anyone can get hold of at a fraction of the cost of an MM booster box.My opinion is that It seems WOTC is trying to soak up as much money out of modern players before the prices hit a point where it turns into another "Legacy".
Yes, obviously making cards more available means more people can play the format. And the reason that making cards more available allows more people to play the format is because those cards become cheaper to buy.
I don't understand how you don't see the connection here. Wizards has stated that card availability is a barrier to entry for modern. Yet, if I wanted to and had the money, I could buy all the cards for, say, a modern Jund deck from Internet retailers right now. The cards are all "available" in the sense that you can buy them. The issue is that they are so expensive that people can't afford to buy them. That is what a "card availability issue" is. Making cards more available means that people can buy them more cheaply. It's simple supply and demand: you increase the supply, the price drops. That's the whole point of Modern Masters. It's also extremely basic economics, and should not be a controversial claim in the slightest.
I have a feeling that any modern staple rare will be mythic, any staple modern uncommon will be rare and any staple modern common will be uncommon. The rest will be limited draft crap. Wizards is in for quite a bit of backlash.
I don't think it'll be quite that extreme. Lightning Bolt would still be a common.
The thing is, Mythic Rares are not a special rarity. They're just rares, that tend to be on the "better" side. Like, say before you'd have 15 good rares on the sheet. These days, 6 of those would be mythic, the other 9 remain at rare.
The entire point of Mythic is to have a higher percentage of them being "good", so players don't have to play Where's Waldo as much to find The Good Cards.
That, and so they had an excuse to make ten fewer total rares.
Lorwyn: 80 rares
RTR: 68 rares
For the lower rarities
Things that just simply aren't done anymore, like Disenchant, yes of course I'd expect them to get bumped up to uncommon or rare.
tdlr: People who think any $40 card is going to be rare in this thing are ca-razy.
Yes, obviously making cards more available means more people can play the format. And the reason that making cards more available allows more people to play the format is because those cards become cheaper to buy.
I don't understand how you don't see the connection here. Wizards has stated that card availability is a barrier to entry for modern. Yet, if I wanted to and had the money, I could buy all the cards for, say, a modern Jund deck from Internet retailers right now. The cards are all "available" in the sense that you can buy them. The issue is that they are so expensive that people can't afford to buy them. That is what a "card availability issue" is. Making cards more available means that people can buy them more cheaply. It's simple supply and demand: you increase the supply, the price drops. That's the whole point of Modern Masters. It's also extremely basic economics, and should not be a controversial claim in the slightest.
I see the connection just fine, but people are not understanding that what Wizards is really trying to do here is stop rising prices by giving players the opportunity to open them in packs. People are really only looking at it in 2 dimensions, which is why Chronicles lead WotC to think about secondary markets.
Plus, its a great way for Wizards to make a fat check.
Huh? What you see is a guy dangling a crown from one finger while his other hand is doing somthing to (unraveling?) the throne that he is leaning against. The "king's head" that you think you're seeing is actually a part of the throne.
I think what he sees as the "king's head" is BECOMING part of the throne. Notice how the other heads on the throne are all different?
this is just furthering my belief that all the cards "to reintroduce modern staples into circulation" are being printed at mythic. their price won't change and wizards is gonna sell a few boxes of this. great
The thing is, Mythic Rares are not a special rarity. They're just rares, that tend to be on the "better" side. Like, say before you'd have 15 good rares on the sheet. These days, 6 of those would be mythic, the other 9 remain at rare.
The entire point of Mythic is to have a higher percentage of them being "good", so players don't have to play Where's Waldo as much to find The Good Cards.
I'm not sure if you're just trolling, but this is completely wrong. Wizards has stated on numerous occasions that mythics are not meant to be "better" than rares, and, furthermore, that they aim to make powerful cards at all rarities. Mythics are cards with big, splashy, unusual effects, but that doesn't make the effects "better," necessarily. Goblin Guide, for example, is arguably the most powerful aggressive creature ever printed, but that doesn't mean it should be mythic. It's definitely better as a rare. Likewise, Worldspine Wurm is big and splashy and very "mythic," but that doesn't make it good, and it is certainly a lot worse than a lot of the rares in Return to Ravnica.
For Modern Masters, though, they did things a bit differently. It appears that the cards with the highest secondary market price are the mythics, hence why Dark Confidant is being printed at mythic.
Yes, obviously making cards more available means more people can play the format. And the reason that making cards more available allows more people to play the format is because those cards become cheaper to buy.
I don't understand how you don't see the connection here. Wizards has stated that card availability is a barrier to entry for modern. Yet, if I wanted to and had the money, I could buy all the cards for, say, a modern Jund deck from Internet retailers right now. The cards are all "available" in the sense that you can buy them. The issue is that they are so expensive that people can't afford to buy them. That is what a "card availability issue" is. Making cards more available means that people can buy them more cheaply. It's simple supply and demand: you increase the supply, the price drops. That's the whole point of Modern Masters. It's also extremely basic economics, and should not be a controversial claim in the slightest.
You can take availability out of the quotations. There are 108 copies of Dark Confidant available in any condition right now on TCG player, and 113 copies of Tarmogoyf. There are 387 copies of Verdant Catacombs available and hundreds more copies than that (more than I felt like counting up) of Deathrite Shaman and Blackcleave Cliffs. All 5 of those cards are rares that are played as 4 ofs in jund which at the time modern masters was being put together was the most played deck in modern. Note that the pre Zen cards are far less available than the ones Zen forward. There is an actual verifiable disparity in the availability between the cards from the time period they chose for modern masters and the time period after it. Less than 35 people could go get playsets of Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant or Vendilion Clique off of TCG player's site right now, and I gaurantee you that Wizards hopes that more people will want to enter the format than the current supply of those cards enables. The economics of the subject don't really matter as long as they don't completely crash the system ala chronicles which they are extremely wary of doing since the entire reason modern exists is because they can't sustain the eternal formats with reprints due to the reserved list which came as a direct result of chronicles.
The funny thing about reprinting Bolt or Brainstorm as a mythic is that unless the ult was really cool it wouldn't matter much because of how much they were printed at lower rarities.
Yes, obviously making cards more available means more people can play the format. And the reason that making cards more available allows more people to play the format is because those cards become cheaper to buy.
I don't understand how you don't see the connection here. Wizards has stated that card availability is a barrier to entry for modern. Yet, if I wanted to and had the money, I could buy all the cards for, say, a modern Jund deck from Internet retailers right now. The cards are all "available" in the sense that you can buy them. The issue is that they are so expensive that people can't afford to buy them. That is what a "card availability issue" is. Making cards more available means that people can buy them more cheaply. It's simple supply and demand: you increase the supply, the price drops. That's the whole point of Modern Masters. It's also extremely basic economics, and should not be a controversial claim in the slightest.
to boil this post down, WotC isn't using the words 'secondary market' or 'price' because then the collectors **** themselves and whine on the Internet about their binders suddenly being worth less than they were previous. this is what happened during Chronicles and it was a problem because WotC wasn't exactly a powerful company. now they have Hasbro backing them, and if they wanted to print another Chronicles they'd have a slew of new customers eating it up and wouldn't give a rat's ass about the grognards.
oddly enough, WotC doesn't seem to understand this and so you get underwhelming low print run things like MM. they're trying to please a group that doesn't give them money versus pleasing the group that would buy up every box ever if only there were more to go around at lower rarities.
tl;dr: WotC should be doing everything they can to get newer players buying their **** and if the collectors ***** about their investments then perhaps they'd be better off buying Google or Apple stocks instead of silly pieces of cardboard.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Maybe we can stop calling him Bob?
Older sets (everything pre Zendikar) had far smaller print runs than sets Zendikar forward. There really are fewer copies of those cards available to purchase/trade for/play with. The pre Zendikar cutoff for Modern Masters was not accidental or arbitrary, but chosen because the cards from those sets needed more circulation to keep up with their desired level of demand for the format. If they fail at increasing the demand for the format by the printing of modern masters then yes, prices will drop, but they have never made any direct claim of having price reduction as a desirable outcome.
It's worse than Commander's Arsenal, at least CA is completely useless unless you really wanted to play mono-G, this MM **** is pissing on everyone who expected to be able to play Goyf, Bob, Thoughtseize, Vendillion, etc for less than $50/100 a piece since they're making them ultra-rares in an already ultra-rare product.
But MM isn't Standard-legal, so what does that matter? The fact it's too good for Standard just means it can't come back in a regular Block/Core Set, it doesn't mean Bob (or Goyf, for that matter) couldn't have been Rare in MM.
I mean, it's not that they can't be justified as Mythics, or that they don't feel closer to Mythic than Rare. It's the fact that they have been assigned to the Mythic slot for one reason: to market the set. But they are Modern *staples*, they aren't cards one runs 2 or 3 copies of for any reason other than card availability. If they were indeed conscious about making the truly expensive Modern staples more affordable, they wouldn't reprint them at Mythic.
They guy above me nailed it, Bob and Goyf (and Clique and a few others) are the rarest they can be, at the rarest set we are getting. And Modern players need 4 copies of each, period. To me this feels like the complete opposite of "let's make these cards more affordable to our players". A $5-10 discount per Bob/Goyf (which is what I'm projecting) isn't going to place tons of people into Modern.
Yes! Thank you! I just now decided to slowly read the article so I can pick up what he was trying to lead to, but in the article they mentioned they didn't respect the amount of reprinting they did, which implies they don't want to hurt prices by bringing them down. If anything, they're trying to put a cap on prices.
This wins the thread, easily. My sides, oh my sides
(Also known as Xenphire)
As has been said in the thread, they are printing more copies of the card.
They are not trying to fix prices.
Bob has a judge promo. That did nothing to help his price. I'm not sure how many judge promos are made, but I would hazard a guess that a mythic in this set would be opened at a rate of AT LEAST twice that.
Mythic slots in this set was a catch-22.
They either put the valuable cards at mythic
or
They put total garbage in the slots. (Lorwyn 5 with new art, Akroma and red Akroma, etc)
Twitter
well the set still has alot of slots for good common and uncommon
also
putting money cards in MR spot will help a bit new players to enter in the format and without alot of collectors crying for they cards' price going down
due to the printrun and the rarity of staples soo this can led them to make a MM2, MM3 and in some of then reprint some of the cards in the MR spot from 1th MM soo More tarmos and bobs more CC more VC more ThoughtS ....
I only hope that the print run and they pack' prices where larger and cheap
would it have been possible to not have mythic slots in the new set since only 3 of the sets covered by modern masters had mythic rares? or maybe had the cut off be eventide so that they could have justified not having mythic rares?
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
Considering the original art is of a Magic player, AKA a nerd, trying to dress up as what most would consider to be a cool guy....
Also, was someone honestly trying to bash the new art for Sad Robot? It is a metric **** load better than the original art.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Tho I also prefered the new arts for meddling mage and sad robot.
Are we sure that's a guy in the new bob art? Reminds me of a rakdos-ified mantis from deux ex human revolution.....
URGRiku, Sorcerer SupremeGRU
Who needs permanents anyways?
WUBRGDeckbuilder's ToolboxGRBUW
Warning:Contents include 34 decks and growing
My thoughts exactly.Which is a problem.A big problem,because the boxes only contain 24 boosters(ie 24 rares,possibly not even a single mythic).This means that 90% of the box will be filled with crap that anyone can get hold of at a fraction of the cost of an MM booster box.My opinion is that It seems WOTC is trying to soak up as much money out of modern players before the prices hit a point where it turns into another "Legacy".
Modern:
UU TronU
URUR StormUR
RBWBurnRBW
EDH:
RBGProssh,skyraider of kherGBR
RKrenko,Mob BossR
URMelek,Izzet ParagonRU
RDaretti, Scrap savantR
WBTriad of fatesBW
I don't understand how you don't see the connection here. Wizards has stated that card availability is a barrier to entry for modern. Yet, if I wanted to and had the money, I could buy all the cards for, say, a modern Jund deck from Internet retailers right now. The cards are all "available" in the sense that you can buy them. The issue is that they are so expensive that people can't afford to buy them. That is what a "card availability issue" is. Making cards more available means that people can buy them more cheaply. It's simple supply and demand: you increase the supply, the price drops. That's the whole point of Modern Masters. It's also extremely basic economics, and should not be a controversial claim in the slightest.
I don't think it'll be quite that extreme. Lightning Bolt would still be a common.
The thing is, Mythic Rares are not a special rarity. They're just rares, that tend to be on the "better" side. Like, say before you'd have 15 good rares on the sheet. These days, 6 of those would be mythic, the other 9 remain at rare.
The entire point of Mythic is to have a higher percentage of them being "good", so players don't have to play Where's Waldo as much to find The Good Cards.
That, and so they had an excuse to make ten fewer total rares.
Lorwyn: 80 rares
RTR: 68 rares
For the lower rarities
Things that just simply aren't done anymore, like Disenchant, yes of course I'd expect them to get bumped up to uncommon or rare.
tdlr: People who think any $40 card is going to be rare in this thing are ca-razy.
I see the connection just fine, but people are not understanding that what Wizards is really trying to do here is stop rising prices by giving players the opportunity to open them in packs. People are really only looking at it in 2 dimensions, which is why Chronicles lead WotC to think about secondary markets.
Plus, its a great way for Wizards to make a fat check.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
I think what he sees as the "king's head" is BECOMING part of the throne. Notice how the other heads on the throne are all different?
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
For Modern Masters, though, they did things a bit differently. It appears that the cards with the highest secondary market price are the mythics, hence why Dark Confidant is being printed at mythic.
You can take availability out of the quotations. There are 108 copies of Dark Confidant available in any condition right now on TCG player, and 113 copies of Tarmogoyf. There are 387 copies of Verdant Catacombs available and hundreds more copies than that (more than I felt like counting up) of Deathrite Shaman and Blackcleave Cliffs. All 5 of those cards are rares that are played as 4 ofs in jund which at the time modern masters was being put together was the most played deck in modern. Note that the pre Zen cards are far less available than the ones Zen forward. There is an actual verifiable disparity in the availability between the cards from the time period they chose for modern masters and the time period after it. Less than 35 people could go get playsets of Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant or Vendilion Clique off of TCG player's site right now, and I gaurantee you that Wizards hopes that more people will want to enter the format than the current supply of those cards enables. The economics of the subject don't really matter as long as they don't completely crash the system ala chronicles which they are extremely wary of doing since the entire reason modern exists is because they can't sustain the eternal formats with reprints due to the reserved list which came as a direct result of chronicles.
Edit: according to the math by Dr. Jeebus here: http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/2013/05/14/modern-masters-seperating-fact-from-fiction/ there will be enough of an increase in supply that 2 players per store can pick up a playset of any given mythic.
HAHA, win. I was about to make a similar comment about how if Brainstorm were reprinted today, it should be reprinted as a mythic.
to boil this post down, WotC isn't using the words 'secondary market' or 'price' because then the collectors **** themselves and whine on the Internet about their binders suddenly being worth less than they were previous. this is what happened during Chronicles and it was a problem because WotC wasn't exactly a powerful company. now they have Hasbro backing them, and if they wanted to print another Chronicles they'd have a slew of new customers eating it up and wouldn't give a rat's ass about the grognards.
oddly enough, WotC doesn't seem to understand this and so you get underwhelming low print run things like MM. they're trying to please a group that doesn't give them money versus pleasing the group that would buy up every box ever if only there were more to go around at lower rarities.
tl;dr: WotC should be doing everything they can to get newer players buying their **** and if the collectors ***** about their investments then perhaps they'd be better off buying Google or Apple stocks instead of silly pieces of cardboard.
I'm pretty sure anyone who like the old art better only likes it for nostalgia.
Though experiment: assume this new art is the original and the original was the new. There would be a riot...
You colonization of language is not appreciated.