If a card in this set costs more than $50, I think it will be promoted to mythic on pricve alone. WotC doesn't want another Chronicles and by having this a limited print run and the expensive staples at mythic it barely hurts thier price (especially when all the mythics will have new art).
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Modern:
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List:
Isn't it possible that the increased supply will not be able to keep up with increasing demand from players as Modern picks up steam?
If that happens, then WotC will have failed in their goal of making modern more accessible. In the short term, it would be good that there were more players, but they'd still have the same problem a year from now of not being able to grow the format due to lack of accessibility.
As far as increasing the supply not making accessibility greater, you are incorrect in that now these cards can be picked up through the booster pack lottery, drafting the set or trading for them from people who have them more often than now.
Right, except that they're not significantly adding to the supply because of all the reasons that itachiitachi mentioned, which is the problem. Putting the most expensive cards at mythic, packaging 24 packs in a box, and having a limited print run will not add to the supply enough to make those cards more available.
From previous real world examples. FTV and judge promos increase the supply of cards and never even budge the prices. It is assumed that there are about the same or slightly more of each mythic entering circulation as what you would get from an FTV printing. And it's still useful for the reasons I stated above.
The FTV series and judge promos are great examples of print runs that are too small to affect prices or the availability of cards. The number of copies of the card entering the market has to be large enough to actually affect the price of that card. For the FTV series and judge foils, it isn't, and if the number of mythics in Modern Masters is comparable to a FTV, then Modern Masters won't affect the price of those cards, either. That actually supports my argument perfectly.
From WOTC's viewpoint, it should be quite desirable.
You're missing the point. The intended goal of Modern Masters is to increase the accessibility of modern as a format. The biggest barrier to that is the cost to build a competitive deck. Modern Masters was supposed to help make that barrier smaller. Therefore, if increasing supply doesn't drive down prices, Modern Masters is not achieving its intended goal. So no, increasing supply without decreasing prices is not desirable. As a matter of fact, it is exactly what they do not want to happen.
The top 16 of GP portland had 4 Goyfs and 0 Dark Confidants. [...] Dark Confidant and Goyf are not staples. They are not barriers to entry into the format, because there are plenty of viable decks that run neither of them, and only one deck that runs both. (only sometimes)
First of all, as others have pointed out, bob, thoughtseize, and goyf are not barriers to entry into the format. There are plenty of cheaper ways to get in, and they are about to become a whole lot cheaper when the market becomes saturated with what are currently money uncommons.
Individually, no, those cards are not barriers of entry into the format. Collectively, however, most modern decks take a lot of investment, and cards like that are one of the biggest reasons why. And just because there are a couple of cheap decks doesn't mean that modern is accessible. That's like saying legacy is accessible because you can just build burn. One or two cheap decks does not make an accessible format.
On the other hand, the increased availability really will make itself felt at the local level even if it does nothing for the retail singles side of things.Also, more copies being available helps keep people from raising prices as the cards become more and more scarce.
Only if there is a significant increase in supply. Again, the key word here is "significant." You have to increase the supply enough that it will actually make a difference, and for the big money cards, the supply will not increase enough to make a difference, as you yourself pointed out with your FTV example.
If that happens, then WotC will have failed in their goal of making modern more accessible. In the short term, it would be good that there were more players, but they'd still have the same problem a year from now of not being able to grow the format due to lack of accessibility
Agreed
That's why I consider MM an experiment
That's also why I think MM won't do as much good as WotC might have hoped: they were too conservative (I can understand why) and will adjust it for MM2 (which is inevitable unless Modern just doesn't pick up at all, I don't see that happening)
What will be interesting to see is how fast WotC comes out with an MM2 (if they do): I know that if I was in charge I would have told WotC "you guys better have a second edition not too far behind if we were too conservative with the print run, I don't want to have to wait 2 years for Modern to be as accessible as we want it to be if MM1 doesn't meet our targets"
That's also why I think MM won't do as much good as WotC might have hoped: they were too conservative (I can understand why) and will adjust it for MM2 (which is inevitable unless Modern just doesn't pick up at all, I don't see that happening)
What will be interesting to see is how fast WotC comes out with an MM2 (if they do): I know that if I was in charge I would have told WotC "you guys better have a second edition not too far behind if we were too conservative with the print run, I don't want to have to wait 2 years for Modern to be as accessible as we want it to be if MM1 doesn't meet our targets"
Yeah, seriously haha. Hopefully they learned their lesson about that from the Commander decks.
That's the philosophy for normal magic sets. MM is not a normal set. Its been stated multiple times that the whole purpose of MM is to ease card availability problems.
I can't believe that after tarmogoyf was previewed as mythic, people seriously expected dark confidant to be different
Then please by all means enlighten me as to why gofy is a mythic if the normal philosophy of sets doesn't apply to MM.
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If that happens, then WotC will have failed in their goal of making modern more accessible. In the short term, it would be good that there were more players, but they'd still have the same problem a year from now of not being able to grow the format due to lack of accessibility.
Since they have stated that they have talked about MM2 etc, I don't think that will be an issue. If they underprint, they'll make up for it.
Right, except that they're not significantly adding to the supply because of all the reasons that itachiitachi mentioned, which is the problem. Putting the most expensive cards at mythic, packaging 24 packs in a box, and having a limited print run will not add to the supply enough to make those cards more available.
I think you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on what constitutes a significant increase in supply. That's going to make getting us to agree difficult.
The FTV series and judge promos are great examples of print runs that are too small to affect prices or the availability of cards. The number of copies of the card entering the market has to be large enough to actually affect the price of that card. For the FTV series and judge foils, it isn't, and if the number of mythics in Modern Masters is comparable to a FTV, then Modern Masters won't affect the price of those cards, either. That actually supports my argument perfectly.
Actually FTV is a fantastic example of a print run that helps availability w/o hurting prices. There are FTV cards all over my shop (noone there buys off the internet) that people have either purchased from the store or traded for from commander players who bought the product for select cards. Not everyone who has an interest in playing modern will even consider buying cards off the internet. Many of us would rather trade for the cards we need or pick them up at the LGS. My LGS currently doesn't have any stock of modern cards, but I am certain that they will open a box or 2 of MM for singles. My friend who plays modern and I have already traded for every goyf that is in our shop's economy, and I have the only Dark Confidant available to trade currently. I have 2 boxes on preorder and no interest in keeping any goyfs or bobs that I open so those are an increase of the supply at my local shop. The overall increase in product will be an amount that will let more people build the decks they want to build without making the cards themselves cheaper.
You're missing the point. The intended goal of Modern Masters is to increase the accessibility of modern as a format. The biggest barrier to that is the cost to build a competitive deck. Modern Masters was supposed to help make that barrier smaller. Therefore, if increasing supply doesn't drive down prices, Modern Masters is not achieving its intended goal. So no, increasing supply without decreasing prices is not desirable. As a matter of fact, it is exactly what they do not want to happen.
Once again, the cost of building a deck is not the barrier to entry that you think it is. Standard decks cost just as much as modern decks do and their value is 100% guaranteed to go down, but people still play the hell out of standard. The difference is that the cards are readily available for trade or to crack from booster packs which MM will help address. It won't suddenly make it easy for everyone to aquire any and every deck they like, but it should most certainly make an impact. If you want a format where price really is the barrier to entry, go look at the prices of a vintage deck. Even legacy decks frequently have manabases that cost more than the entire cost of a modern deck.
Only if there is a significant increase in supply. Again, the key word here is "significant." You have to increase the supply enough that it will actually make a difference, and for the big money cards, the supply will not increase enough to make a difference, as you yourself pointed out with your FTV example.
Again, difference of opinion on what is significant. If 1-3 players per store can suddenly have access to the cards they need through routes that are not the internet, then I would call that significant indeed. Honestly, I fully expect that anything printed below mythic rarity is at a huge risk of dropping quite a bit. Especially any of the currently money uncommons that aren't bumped in rarity.
Then please by all means enlighten me as to why gofy is a mythic if the normal philosophy of sets doesn't apply to MM.
Why not make lighting bolt a rare
Goyf is a mythic because it makes the perfect flagship rare for the set. And if you don't think goyf is very "mythic" then you've never seen the way people react when they see a set of goyfs for the first time. Their jaws drop in a way that they don't when they see revised dual lands.
People like to look at goyf and say "OH! LOOK! VANILLA MYTHIC!!!!!"
The problem with this argument is it's NOT TRUE! Yes, when he hits the field, he does not have evasion, nor does he do anything to the field, however, the reason he is so strong is because of a highly variable ability that STILL feels like it would be considered pushed today.
This is because they developed the card to do something that wasn't ever really done. The original card even had the "future shifting" marks around it, and I have no doubt that future sight would have made it a mythic if they existed in that time.
It deals in territory that is new to the game still. It pushes design in a different way, and I don't understand how that DOESN'T qualify it as a mythic.
Yes, I wish it wasn't. I'd like to play with it, and it's price tag is out of my range. That doesn't mean I'm going to cry about it's rarity when it's perfectly fair as a mythic.
A M/NM Thoughtseize was running $20-25 before it shot up, Vendilion Clique was in the $25-$30 range and I remember seeing Player Promo Cryptic Command going for $18 at GP Philly. Hell, I think blue fetches were $20 and under.
Jesus!
I'm glad I bought playsets of Clique and Thoughtseize when Modern FNM was announced-
Too bad I didn't also get Bob
And since when is the Clique Judge Foil $80?!
Mine was only $30 less than a year ago...
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Jesus!
I'm glad I bought playsets of Clique and Thoughtseize when Modern FNM was announced-
Too bad I didn't also get Bob
And since when is the Clique Judge Foil $80?!
Mine was only $30 less than a year ago...
Your Answer!
Starcity Games! When they learned about Modern Masters, they hit up all the big Magic sites and used they SUPER DEEP pockets to buy all the Modern Staples. Heck, they even bought some from our local game store here!
Starcity has an inside ear to Wizards and they tend to know things ahead of time. When ever you see a price jump on Star City, they know something! lol.
But yeah, Star City did buy out all of Cardkingdoms Fetch Lands, Thought Seizes and so forth awhile back, SUPER JACKING the price. It is the equivalent of how Becket controlled sports card prices before eBay made cards more widely available.
Starcity Games! When they learned about Modern Masters, they hit up all the big Magic sites and used they SUPER DEEP pockets to buy all the Modern Staples. Heck, they even bought some from our local game store here!
Starcity has an inside ear to Wizards and they tend to know things ahead of time. When ever you see a price jump on Star City, they know something! lol.
But yeah, Star City did buy out all of Cardkingdoms Fetch Lands, Thought Seizes and so forth awhile back, SUPER JACKING the price. It is the equivalent of how Becket controlled sports card prices before eBay made cards more widely available.
Cyriss07
Some people just love a conspiracy theory, and being the "plucky underdog" to some supposed evil empire. Ever consider that Star City just saw that Modern was growing and that it'd be a good time to stock up on cards they saw as having an increase in demand as a new and fledgling format starts to come into it's own? Never mind the fact that the past couple years have seen the appearance and growth of "Magic Finance", so not only do you have the large online stores buying things and putting a crimp in circulation, you have a whole brand new horde of speculators and traders that control a not-insignificant portion of the playable cards in any format?
Every consider that it's less a "Top down" push but more akin to a DDoS pulled off by hundreds or thousands of a new class of speculator/trader that are pulling lots of playsets of cards out of circulation to sit on them until they hit a profit margin they're comfortable with?
I would not be shocked if the readership of MTG Finance articles, forums and websites were FAR more responsible for any sort of price fluctuations than Star City Games is- it just so happens that it's a whole lot easier to see when Star City Games does it... and even that may just be the result of them having to move based on the actions of what that group of players and collectors are doing.
Starcity Games! When they learned about Modern Masters, they hit up all the big Magic sites and used they SUPER DEEP pockets to buy all the Modern Staples. Heck, they even bought some from our local game store here!
Starcity has an inside ear to Wizards and they tend to know things ahead of time. When ever you see a price jump on Star City, they know something! lol.
But yeah, Star City did buy out all of Cardkingdoms Fetch Lands, Thought Seizes and so forth awhile back, SUPER JACKING the price. It is the equivalent of how Becket controlled sports card prices before eBay made cards more widely available.
Cyriss07
Yes! This!
Come on, wake up SHEEPLE. Fight the big bad evil SCG, the only thing you have to lose is your Chains of Mephistopheles!
It's naive to single out SCG as the sole reason for the price hikes, but you can't rule out the influence they have on the second market, or the notion that they're privy to inside information.
It's naive to single out SCG as the sole reason for the price hikes, but you can't rule out the influence they have on the second market, or the notion that they're privy to inside information.
They aren't privy to inside information. They get their information from the same channels as everyone else.
For example, if MTGS posts an incorrect rumor, they believe it like everyone else.
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disgusting at mythic, but who'd have guessed? Maybe wotc is trying to cater to the yu-gi-oh crowd, because thats what this **** of a set is: expensive as **** with an abysmal chance to get what you want. great design... really
regarding the new art, I dont like it, but Im happy its there, cuz if you dislike the old one, well here are your new ones. and if you dont like them, just use the old bobs.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I love how some people are seriously arguing that people can't find modern staples. Not that they're high-priced due to scarcity (Which is what's actually keeping people from buying them), but that people can't find them.
Yes, I can't find Tarmogoyf. Putting up an ebay search gets 60 results, but clearly, the problem is that I'll never be able to find one. [/sarcasm]
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
I love how some people are seriously arguing that people can't find modern staples. Not that they're high-priced due to scarcity (Which is what's actually keeping people from buying them), but that people can't find them.
Yes, I can't find Tarmogoyf. Putting up an ebay search gets 60 results, but clearly, the problem is that I'll never be able to find one. [/sarcasm]
At the local level it is very hard to find tarmogoyf. The price of tarmogoyf is not however hurting attendance at modern gps and pro tours. If you are serious about competing with a deck that runs tarmogoyfs you are going to find the copies you need to play with them no matter what they cost. Tournament playing spikes that are willing to spend the money to travel will also make sure they get ahold of whatever cards they need to play whether they have to beg/buy/borrow or trade for them, even to a dealer. The price of those cards are not going to be the thing that holds people back from acquiring them for competetive level tournament use. If they show up to an event and the dealers are out of them, it doesn't matter how much they cost. Star city games currently has only one copy of tarmogoyf (a foil german one) in stock. The price of tarmogoyf isn't holding back the segment of the magic playing population that buys their cards from the internet. They are getting bought. The supply is dwindling.
The (far larger) segment of the magic playing population that relies on trades (including trading in to their LGS) to acquire cards that they don't crack from booster packs is the one that is having the most issues with availability, since most players who have the older modern staples aren't trading them. This set will increase the supply to those players that need the increased supply in order to be able to play in local events. Wizards sanctioned modern as an FNM format. I don't know about you, but my local store(s) don't have enough people with access to the cards to build modern decks. As a result, we couldn't hold a sanctioned modern event. We tried, but not enough people showed up. Standard on the other hand regularly draws 30+ people because the cards are readily available either out of trade binders or packs or the singles that they sell at my LGS. This set will give the local supply a much needed shot in the arm. I know people with proxied chromatic stars for crying out loud, I get asked about spell snare and remand all the time. When the Sorin v. Tibalt deck came out, the spectral processions were hot trade items. Ignore tarmogoyf for a second and focus on the last two sentences. The various uncommons just don't exist locally, and most of the people who play magic that would come to the modern FNM if they could don't buy singles off the internet at any price. Some of them don't have credit cards, some of them don't see the point in spending real dollars for singles, especially uncommons, whatever. The point is, there is going to be a deluge of whatever common/uncommon staples they print and now a ton of people are going to have access to the basic building blocks needed to even think about starting a modern deck.
I love how some people are seriously arguing that people can't find modern staples. Not that they're high-priced due to scarcity (Which is what's actually keeping people from buying them), but that people can't find them.
Yes, I can't find Tarmogoyf. Putting up an ebay search gets 60 results, but clearly, the problem is that I'll never be able to find one. [/sarcasm]
You have to remember that not everyone lives in the US. I live in China, came over from Korea where I started playing Magic. I had a better Modern/Legacy collection at the time than both of my local stores because of my love for EDH. I had 0 fetches, 0 Bob, 0 Goyf, 0 Thoughtseize but I did have a set of Cryptic Commands. Could I get Goyfs from eBay/SCG? Yes. Do I want to effectively pay twice for the card because of international shipping? No. So I can't find Modern staples.
It's very easy to toss out blanket statements like this without taking other things into consideration.
disgusting at mythic, but who'd have guessed? Maybe wotc is trying to cater to the yu-gi-oh crowd, because thats what this **** of a set is: expensive as **** with an abysmal chance to get what you want. great design... really
regarding the new art, I dont like it, but Im happy its there, cuz if you dislike the old one, well here are your new ones. and if you dont like them, just use the old bobs.
i disagree with you. asd a person who jumped off from YUgioh, to play MTG, the game, and how it is is made, are very different.
Goyf may be a mythic, however there are still more then 1 good mythic in this set, and weve seen 2 cards. If this were yugioh, not only would Goyf have been the only good mythic in the set, it would have been short printed to 1 per case.
Thats the state Yugiooh is in. The last set that came out, efgfectively had an uncommon that you need 12 of, that is short printed to 1 per box (or 12 per case), and a mythic that is over 200$. and those are the only playables in the whole set.
The current DTB, is well over 1000$ to play, and that isnt even the main deck. thats 6 of the cards you use, that arent even played in your damn main deck.
So trust me, MTG is nothing like Yugioh. It is in much better shape. If goyf is a 100$ mythic so be it. Atleast, thats the damn most expensive thing i have to buy.
Because
- It's a very, very good card
- Is worth a lot money
- Is very strong in draft (and MM is draftable)
Goyf doesn't seem particularly strong in draft (although I didn't draft much Time Spiral block and I obviously have no conception of the MM format). I can't see him growing much bigger than a 3/4 even in an unusually long game.
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Goyf doesn't seem particularly strong in draft (although I didn't draft much Time Spiral block and I obviously have no conception of the MM format). I can't see him growing much bigger than a 3/4 even in an unusually long game.
Wow, a 3/4 for 1G? What a terrible card for draft. Just pass that down the line; you'll probably see him come back around.
Wow, a 3/4 for 1G? What a terrible card for draft. Just pass that down the line; you'll probably see him come back around.
It's true. In draft, everybody cracks a fetch land turn one. Guaranteed. That's usually followed up by a Thoughtseize, and Lightning Bolt. By then, your Goyf is a 3/4. No questions asked. It will never be anything less. Ever. Nope. Not ever. Especially in draft. /sarcasm
Tarmogoyf isn't overpowered in draft, not by a long shot. I'd be happier with a Serra Angel in many situations. He is a mythic because he is $$$. There is no denying it. I'm not complaining about it, just stating a fact.
It's true. In draft, everybody cracks a fetch land turn one. Guaranteed. That's usually followed up by a Thoughtseize, and Lightning Bolt. By then, your Goyf is a 3/4. No questions asked. It will never be anything less. Ever. Nope. Not ever. Especially in draft. /sarcasm
I'm glad it's sarcasm, because it's certainly not an argument. Which do you want, Grizzly Bears that will always be a 2/2, or Grizzly Bears that could be a 3/4?
Tarmogoyf isn't overpowered in draft, not by a long shot. I'd be happier with a Serra Angel in many situations. He is a mythic because he is $$$. There is no denying it. I'm not complaining about it, just stating a fact.
The claim Soma made was that he wasn't particularly strong, not that he is overpowered.
I'm glad it's sarcasm, because it's certainly not an argument. Which do you want, Grizzly Bears that will always be a 2/2, or Grizzly Bears that could be a 3/4?
Which do you want? Grizzly Bears that will always be 2/2 or Squire that sometimes is 0/1?
It goes both ways - Tarmogoyf is not terrible in Draft, but neither it is consistently exceptionally good.
The real problem though about the earlier argument is not whether the card is good or bad in Draft, but that Limited is the most minor of minor (nonexistant?) reasons to ever push something from rare to mythic rare.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Right, except that they're not significantly adding to the supply because of all the reasons that itachiitachi mentioned, which is the problem. Putting the most expensive cards at mythic, packaging 24 packs in a box, and having a limited print run will not add to the supply enough to make those cards more available.
The FTV series and judge promos are great examples of print runs that are too small to affect prices or the availability of cards. The number of copies of the card entering the market has to be large enough to actually affect the price of that card. For the FTV series and judge foils, it isn't, and if the number of mythics in Modern Masters is comparable to a FTV, then Modern Masters won't affect the price of those cards, either. That actually supports my argument perfectly.
You're missing the point. The intended goal of Modern Masters is to increase the accessibility of modern as a format. The biggest barrier to that is the cost to build a competitive deck. Modern Masters was supposed to help make that barrier smaller. Therefore, if increasing supply doesn't drive down prices, Modern Masters is not achieving its intended goal. So no, increasing supply without decreasing prices is not desirable. As a matter of fact, it is exactly what they do not want to happen.
Individually, no, those cards are not barriers of entry into the format. Collectively, however, most modern decks take a lot of investment, and cards like that are one of the biggest reasons why. And just because there are a couple of cheap decks doesn't mean that modern is accessible. That's like saying legacy is accessible because you can just build burn. One or two cheap decks does not make an accessible format.
Only if there is a significant increase in supply. Again, the key word here is "significant." You have to increase the supply enough that it will actually make a difference, and for the big money cards, the supply will not increase enough to make a difference, as you yourself pointed out with your FTV example.
Agreed
That's why I consider MM an experiment
That's also why I think MM won't do as much good as WotC might have hoped: they were too conservative (I can understand why) and will adjust it for MM2 (which is inevitable unless Modern just doesn't pick up at all, I don't see that happening)
What will be interesting to see is how fast WotC comes out with an MM2 (if they do): I know that if I was in charge I would have told WotC "you guys better have a second edition not too far behind if we were too conservative with the print run, I don't want to have to wait 2 years for Modern to be as accessible as we want it to be if MM1 doesn't meet our targets"
Then please by all means enlighten me as to why gofy is a mythic if the normal philosophy of sets doesn't apply to MM.
Why not make lighting bolt a rare
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
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Lightning Bolt isn't eligible for MM; it appeared in M10.
Because
- It's a very, very good card
- Is worth a lot money
- Is very strong in draft (and MM is draftable)
Since they have stated that they have talked about MM2 etc, I don't think that will be an issue. If they underprint, they'll make up for it.
I think you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on what constitutes a significant increase in supply. That's going to make getting us to agree difficult.
Actually FTV is a fantastic example of a print run that helps availability w/o hurting prices. There are FTV cards all over my shop (noone there buys off the internet) that people have either purchased from the store or traded for from commander players who bought the product for select cards. Not everyone who has an interest in playing modern will even consider buying cards off the internet. Many of us would rather trade for the cards we need or pick them up at the LGS. My LGS currently doesn't have any stock of modern cards, but I am certain that they will open a box or 2 of MM for singles. My friend who plays modern and I have already traded for every goyf that is in our shop's economy, and I have the only Dark Confidant available to trade currently. I have 2 boxes on preorder and no interest in keeping any goyfs or bobs that I open so those are an increase of the supply at my local shop. The overall increase in product will be an amount that will let more people build the decks they want to build without making the cards themselves cheaper.
Once again, the cost of building a deck is not the barrier to entry that you think it is. Standard decks cost just as much as modern decks do and their value is 100% guaranteed to go down, but people still play the hell out of standard. The difference is that the cards are readily available for trade or to crack from booster packs which MM will help address. It won't suddenly make it easy for everyone to aquire any and every deck they like, but it should most certainly make an impact. If you want a format where price really is the barrier to entry, go look at the prices of a vintage deck. Even legacy decks frequently have manabases that cost more than the entire cost of a modern deck.
Again, difference of opinion on what is significant. If 1-3 players per store can suddenly have access to the cards they need through routes that are not the internet, then I would call that significant indeed. Honestly, I fully expect that anything printed below mythic rarity is at a huge risk of dropping quite a bit. Especially any of the currently money uncommons that aren't bumped in rarity.
Goyf is a mythic because it makes the perfect flagship rare for the set. And if you don't think goyf is very "mythic" then you've never seen the way people react when they see a set of goyfs for the first time. Their jaws drop in a way that they don't when they see revised dual lands.
LOL, this too...
The problem with this argument is it's NOT TRUE! Yes, when he hits the field, he does not have evasion, nor does he do anything to the field, however, the reason he is so strong is because of a highly variable ability that STILL feels like it would be considered pushed today.
This is because they developed the card to do something that wasn't ever really done. The original card even had the "future shifting" marks around it, and I have no doubt that future sight would have made it a mythic if they existed in that time.
It deals in territory that is new to the game still. It pushes design in a different way, and I don't understand how that DOESN'T qualify it as a mythic.
Yes, I wish it wasn't. I'd like to play with it, and it's price tag is out of my range. That doesn't mean I'm going to cry about it's rarity when it's perfectly fair as a mythic.
Jesus!
I'm glad I bought playsets of Clique and Thoughtseize when Modern FNM was announced-
Too bad I didn't also get Bob
And since when is the Clique Judge Foil $80?!
Mine was only $30 less than a year ago...
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Your Answer!
Starcity Games! When they learned about Modern Masters, they hit up all the big Magic sites and used they SUPER DEEP pockets to buy all the Modern Staples. Heck, they even bought some from our local game store here!
Starcity has an inside ear to Wizards and they tend to know things ahead of time. When ever you see a price jump on Star City, they know something! lol.
But yeah, Star City did buy out all of Cardkingdoms Fetch Lands, Thought Seizes and so forth awhile back, SUPER JACKING the price. It is the equivalent of how Becket controlled sports card prices before eBay made cards more widely available.
Cyriss07
Some people just love a conspiracy theory, and being the "plucky underdog" to some supposed evil empire. Ever consider that Star City just saw that Modern was growing and that it'd be a good time to stock up on cards they saw as having an increase in demand as a new and fledgling format starts to come into it's own? Never mind the fact that the past couple years have seen the appearance and growth of "Magic Finance", so not only do you have the large online stores buying things and putting a crimp in circulation, you have a whole brand new horde of speculators and traders that control a not-insignificant portion of the playable cards in any format?
Every consider that it's less a "Top down" push but more akin to a DDoS pulled off by hundreds or thousands of a new class of speculator/trader that are pulling lots of playsets of cards out of circulation to sit on them until they hit a profit margin they're comfortable with?
I would not be shocked if the readership of MTG Finance articles, forums and websites were FAR more responsible for any sort of price fluctuations than Star City Games is- it just so happens that it's a whole lot easier to see when Star City Games does it... and even that may just be the result of them having to move based on the actions of what that group of players and collectors are doing.
Yes! This!
Come on, wake up SHEEPLE. Fight the big bad evil SCG, the only thing you have to lose is your Chains of Mephistopheles!
Also, 9-11 was an inside job!
meat's Trade Corner
They aren't privy to inside information. They get their information from the same channels as everyone else.
For example, if MTGS posts an incorrect rumor, they believe it like everyone else.
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regarding the new art, I dont like it, but Im happy its there, cuz if you dislike the old one, well here are your new ones. and if you dont like them, just use the old bobs.
Yes, I can't find Tarmogoyf. Putting up an ebay search gets 60 results, but clearly, the problem is that I'll never be able to find one. [/sarcasm]
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At the local level it is very hard to find tarmogoyf. The price of tarmogoyf is not however hurting attendance at modern gps and pro tours. If you are serious about competing with a deck that runs tarmogoyfs you are going to find the copies you need to play with them no matter what they cost. Tournament playing spikes that are willing to spend the money to travel will also make sure they get ahold of whatever cards they need to play whether they have to beg/buy/borrow or trade for them, even to a dealer. The price of those cards are not going to be the thing that holds people back from acquiring them for competetive level tournament use. If they show up to an event and the dealers are out of them, it doesn't matter how much they cost. Star city games currently has only one copy of tarmogoyf (a foil german one) in stock. The price of tarmogoyf isn't holding back the segment of the magic playing population that buys their cards from the internet. They are getting bought. The supply is dwindling.
The (far larger) segment of the magic playing population that relies on trades (including trading in to their LGS) to acquire cards that they don't crack from booster packs is the one that is having the most issues with availability, since most players who have the older modern staples aren't trading them. This set will increase the supply to those players that need the increased supply in order to be able to play in local events. Wizards sanctioned modern as an FNM format. I don't know about you, but my local store(s) don't have enough people with access to the cards to build modern decks. As a result, we couldn't hold a sanctioned modern event. We tried, but not enough people showed up. Standard on the other hand regularly draws 30+ people because the cards are readily available either out of trade binders or packs or the singles that they sell at my LGS. This set will give the local supply a much needed shot in the arm. I know people with proxied chromatic stars for crying out loud, I get asked about spell snare and remand all the time. When the Sorin v. Tibalt deck came out, the spectral processions were hot trade items. Ignore tarmogoyf for a second and focus on the last two sentences. The various uncommons just don't exist locally, and most of the people who play magic that would come to the modern FNM if they could don't buy singles off the internet at any price. Some of them don't have credit cards, some of them don't see the point in spending real dollars for singles, especially uncommons, whatever. The point is, there is going to be a deluge of whatever common/uncommon staples they print and now a ton of people are going to have access to the basic building blocks needed to even think about starting a modern deck.
You have to remember that not everyone lives in the US. I live in China, came over from Korea where I started playing Magic. I had a better Modern/Legacy collection at the time than both of my local stores because of my love for EDH. I had 0 fetches, 0 Bob, 0 Goyf, 0 Thoughtseize but I did have a set of Cryptic Commands. Could I get Goyfs from eBay/SCG? Yes. Do I want to effectively pay twice for the card because of international shipping? No. So I can't find Modern staples.
It's very easy to toss out blanket statements like this without taking other things into consideration.
i disagree with you. asd a person who jumped off from YUgioh, to play MTG, the game, and how it is is made, are very different.
Goyf may be a mythic, however there are still more then 1 good mythic in this set, and weve seen 2 cards. If this were yugioh, not only would Goyf have been the only good mythic in the set, it would have been short printed to 1 per case.
Thats the state Yugiooh is in. The last set that came out, efgfectively had an uncommon that you need 12 of, that is short printed to 1 per box (or 12 per case), and a mythic that is over 200$. and those are the only playables in the whole set.
The current DTB, is well over 1000$ to play, and that isnt even the main deck. thats 6 of the cards you use, that arent even played in your damn main deck.
So trust me, MTG is nothing like Yugioh. It is in much better shape. If goyf is a 100$ mythic so be it. Atleast, thats the damn most expensive thing i have to buy.
Goyf doesn't seem particularly strong in draft (although I didn't draft much Time Spiral block and I obviously have no conception of the MM format). I can't see him growing much bigger than a 3/4 even in an unusually long game.
Wow, a 3/4 for 1G? What a terrible card for draft. Just pass that down the line; you'll probably see him come back around.
It's true. In draft, everybody cracks a fetch land turn one. Guaranteed. That's usually followed up by a Thoughtseize, and Lightning Bolt. By then, your Goyf is a 3/4. No questions asked. It will never be anything less. Ever. Nope. Not ever. Especially in draft. /sarcasm
Tarmogoyf isn't overpowered in draft, not by a long shot. I'd be happier with a Serra Angel in many situations. He is a mythic because he is $$$. There is no denying it. I'm not complaining about it, just stating a fact.
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I'm glad it's sarcasm, because it's certainly not an argument. Which do you want, Grizzly Bears that will always be a 2/2, or Grizzly Bears that could be a 3/4?
The claim Soma made was that he wasn't particularly strong, not that he is overpowered.
Which do you want? Grizzly Bears that will always be 2/2 or Squire that sometimes is 0/1?
It goes both ways - Tarmogoyf is not terrible in Draft, but neither it is consistently exceptionally good.
The real problem though about the earlier argument is not whether the card is good or bad in Draft, but that Limited is the most minor of minor (nonexistant?) reasons to ever push something from rare to mythic rare.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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