Personally I would rather tap out and board wipe rather than have to waste more resources on removal. I get that's there are other aspects to think about, but my opponent gets to drop their creatures again, especially if they go straight to combat without playing anything main phase 1.
A board wipe ensures that we stave those cards off permanently except in corner cases, and the opponent has to rebuild their board from draws. That's gives us a better advantage in my opinion.
Well on the same token you need to remember you can't always play your Flash deck in magical christmas land, in a deck where you have bounce effects, life gain via Sphinx and Azorius Charm and cheap/versatile countermagic and of course 5/5 and 3/4 EOT in your face beaters, that you sometimes have to play at a tempo pace rather than a control deck first, beat down deck later.
I'm sure you lost plenty of hexproof/aggro matchups saying if only I drew more verdicts and understand my point. A lot of games I watch people , Unsummon on 1, Selesyna Block on 2 ,Azorius Charm on turn 3, just to drop wurm and block on 4, Where they could have done whatever else on 3, blocked on 4, and then swung with life link on 5 etc.
In a deck that doesn't play 4 sweepers for a reason, I think that line of play needs to see more clarity. Of course this is just how I see it re watching my games or watching others play.
I'm just debating Aetherizes place in the deck and feel like Verdict is a hard kill spell that's more reliable and gives us more breathing room. I'm not saying it's the end all be all because our deck is so flexible, but all I'm arguing for is Verdict over Aetherize in the sweeper department. We have such versatile cards that having just a hard 'NO' is nice as an asset.
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Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I'm just debating Aetherizes place in the deck and feel like Verdict is a hard kill spell that's more reliable and gives us more breathing room. I'm not saying it's the end all be all because our deck is so flexible, but all I'm arguing for is Verdict over Aetherize in the sweeper department. We have such versatile cards that having just a hard 'NO' is nice as an asset.
Of course I wouldn't say take out verdict, but Aetherize could definitely deserve a sideboard slot or 2
If you don't feel like clicking the link, here is the summary. Opposing legendaries of the same name do not kill each other any more. AND if you get 2+ with the same name on the same side of the field, then one WILL survive. Holy crap! I don't know what to make of this rules change lol
If you don't feel like clicking the link, here is the summary. Opposing legendaries of the same name do not kill each other any more. AND if you get 2+ with the same name on the same side of the field, then one WILL survive. Holy crap! I don't know what to make of this rules change lol
Maybe this?
-2 Clone
+2 Aetherize
IDK I can't think right now
Clone is still amazing for copying Thragtusks and Angel of Serenity etc. I don't think it should go away but I think the Progen Mimic just became ALOT better
Yes, but it just lost one of its functions against decks like Bant Hexproof for example. It can't kill Sigarda anymore either and I'm thinking that because this value has been lost, perhaps there are better options for those slots now. I'm not arguing that copying such creatures is meaningless, just that we should keep an open mind about removing them from the side for something else.
Note that the changes to the Legend rule go into effect July 14. So until then, we are okay. Unfortunately that's still when Sigarda is in standard and for the the 3 months or so following that date she will be bonkers off a Cavern.
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Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Yeah that's like what 3 weeks? Just saying, we should start looking at other options now and be prepared when the time comes. So far the only option I can see is instead of running 1-2 Verdicts, running 2-4 instead.
Also Runechanter's Pike on Angel just became a lot better. Of course those colors also run Selesnya Charm. So there is that.
EDIT: Then again I guess you could just clone Sigarda and use that copy to block the original. However Geist + Evasion is still a problem.
Yeah that's like what 3 weeks? Just saying, we should start looking at other options now and be prepared when the time comes. So far the only option I can see is instead of running 1-2 Verdicts, running 2-4 instead.
Also Runechanter's Pike on Angel just became a lot better. Of course those colors also run Selesnya Charm. So there is that.
EDIT: Then again I guess you could just clone Sigarda and use that copy to block the original. However Geist + Evasion is still a problem.
Why did runechanters on Angel become a lot better? or do you just mean as an answer to sigarda etc?
Yeah that's like what 3 weeks? Just saying, we should start looking at other options now and be prepared when the time comes. So far the only option I can see is instead of running 1-2 Verdicts, running 2-4 instead.
Also Runechanter's Pike on Angel just became a lot better. Of course those colors also run Selesnya Charm. So there is that.
EDIT: Then again I guess you could just clone Sigarda and use that copy to block the original. However Geist + Evasion is still a problem.
P.S. we can also run those Thought Scours and Terminus <3
I don't see how Thought Scour helps against Hexproof.
2 mana, you EoT Thought Scour into a Terminus. 2 mana, instant board sweep. If you look at most successful Terminus decks, they all run thought scours/other 1 mana draw spells.
Obviously the more you run the greater this holds true. You will Thought scour either them or yourself, preference really, sometimes you mill away the miracle draw.. But if you run 3/4 Terminus and 3/4 Scour you have 6 chances at hitting it in the first few turns geist will go online, if you count your turn and theirs, obviously it's not a fool proof plan, but either is hoping to draw a verdict on turn 4/5 when geists can go online on turn 3 for 12 damage or so.
Also mentioning you would run both terminus and Supreme, not one or the other.
Another perk is you can also hold true to the strategy of the deck ie filling up your graveyard/drawing more cards for Runechanter's as well as giving you the outs for a sweeper all in one.
P.S.
The reason this strategy wasn't used as much lately was because people just stuck to using clone etc, but with that being gone you may see a rise in it again or people might tech into Glaring Spotlight
If anything is going to hurt us its not being able to legend rule olivia. I don't think it alters the hexproof MU that much for us.
This is true but I am more scared of a 5/5 olivia or so then a 3/3, and if that is the case, We have selesyna charm. Also don't forget we play unsummon/Simic Charm/Azorius Charm for a reason.
But in the grand scheme things, Yes it does suck :/
I would just like to mention as a deck that runs 0 planeswalkers and 0 guild creatures, main decking Renounce the Guilds holds no drawback for the deck, turn 3 geist, Renounce after he resolves.
It is a dead issue against Sigarda on turn 5 but I am much more confident against a hexproof creature on turn 4/5 with an empty board then a 6+ damage threat on an empty board in turn 2/3
Yeah Renounce is a definite sideboard card at least. It's pretty incredible against the current meta for us.
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Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing: Standard: UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
I finally ran into some of the aggro decks which all of the stats tell me are so common on MTGO. Matchups were boros blitz (2-1), which was basically mono red with a light red splash, the mirror (2-1), gruul blitz (2-0) and naya blitz (2-1). A lot of people in this thread seem to be worried about the aggro matchup, but i'm now 4-0 against aggro over the past few dailies, my issue previously has been I keep getting matched up against midrangey value decks which is not what this deck is good against. It's fundamentally favoured vs aggro though, especially with voices out of the board.
Not that I'm suddenly the expert on the deck or anything, but a couple of my thoughts:
* Resto angel is like the 5th advent, it's not crucial to the deck and I could see cutting it. It's ok because the deck wants more bodies, but you just get so little value out of it.
* This is probably the best thought scour deck I've ever played, and I think people are crazy if they don't maximise that by playing 4x snapcaster and at least one moorland haunt and pike.
* This isn't a particularly great supreme verdict deck, especially against an aggro player that has a brain, as verdict conflicts with the overall bounce/tempo plan. I could see cutting down to 1 maindeck, possibly for another angel.
* Unsummon is infini-better than simic charm. the one mana is relevant so often, being able to worm/resto with unsummon backup on turn 5 in response to bloodrush or whatever can be so important.
* 25 lands feels right, I don't think the deck wants to go up to 26 because its a tempo not a control deck. But hitting 4 is obviously crucial, and you don't play think twice, so can't get too greedy.
* Bring in dispel vs aggro AND control decks. The most dangerous cards in aggro matchups are often instants, eg. skullcrack in response to revelation, boros charm in response to verdict, so it's actually worth the slot. I did keep one 4 land hand which was land, land, land, dispel which felt pretty awkward at the time but I got the nut runner-runner-runner draw after that so it was all good :).
Fwiw, my estimates of how favourable/unfavourable the main matchs are based on my experience in dailies and testing:
I've never run into RWB, aristocrats or dega. I feel like they're going to be fairly even, but not sure. Basically the deck is pretty fair, it has decent matchups against quite a few decks, a couple of bad ones, but nothing really dominant.
I can go into sideboard thoughts a bit more if anyone's interested.
I don't think anyone disagrees with Unsummon being better when you expect to go up against a lot of aggro match-ups. However as I've said before almost nobody (1 person) in my area runs aggro, so for my slower meta Simic Charm is better as it also provides protection and a finisher move.
Hello everybody. I'm going to play Bant Flash for GameDay, I really like this deck because it fits my playstyle. I'm here asking for help especially for the sideboard.
Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.
I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).
The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.
I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.
The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.
What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?
Hello everybody. I'm going to play Bant Flash for GameDay, I really like this deck because it fits my playstyle. I'm here asking for help especially for the sideboard.
Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.
I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).
The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.
I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.
The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.
What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?
Comment and criticism is really appreciated here
The thing with Thought Scour vs Think Twice. Not only does Thought Scour work in conjunction with Runechanter's Pike, but it also works with Azorius Charm as a sort of removal option. Sure its 2 cards to kill one creature but you also get a draw out of it and prevent some damage. I've done that quite often to great effect against beastly creatures.
With Augur vs Wolfir, Wolfir can survive better yes, but if its the early game it doesn't as you need 5 mana then to protect it. Which by the time that becomes relevant in an aggro matchup, Augur would have been the better option for blocking. Coming down one turn sooner and possibly preventing any attacks for that turn is perhaps even more relevant than Wolfir. Not to mention netting a card that can save you sooner. Wolfir is also less relevant against Bant Auras (which is one of our worst matchups due to the hexproof). The reason is most of the time wolfir won't be able to chump enough of their creatures when many of their enchantments give evasion in one form or another. Augur comes down a turn sooner and can net you the answer you need that much sooner (while blocking an equal amount of damage) which is much more relevant.
As for Feeling of Dread, there has been much debate over that, Druid's Deliverance, or Heroes' Reunion. I suggest reading this: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10229595&postcount=179
If you don't see a lot of Voice of Resurgence, but Aggro is big in your area then Feeling of Dread or Druid's Deliverance would be decent. Probably Deliverance as it has the potential to stop more damage while netting you a 2nd 5/5. If you do see a lot of them, then I suggest Heroes' Reunion which is essentially a mini-fog that you can cast on your own turn and still have relevance.
I'm not sure how I feel about Aetherling, however if you're intention is to play it against control (while yes they certainly wouldn't expect it), you have to actually resolve it for it to be relevant. I guess the element of surprise might give you an upperhand there, but control decks typically run more counterspells than we do. While it is a great card and nearly impossible to kill, I just don't know there.
Hello everybody. I'm going to play Bant Flash for GameDay, I really like this deck because it fits my playstyle. I'm here asking for help especially for the sideboard.
Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.
I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).
The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.
I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.
The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.
What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?
Comment and criticism is really appreciated here
The one thing that confused me about your deck is that you concede the fact that Wolfir is worse than Augur against aggro, but better against control midrange.
You also concede the fact Think Twice is better against midrange and control than thought scour
Now looking at your sideboard you have about 5 -7 cards to deal with control and midrange, while only 2 to deal with aggro ie Feeling of Dread and then an over abundance of cards that are all spread out to deal with the Hexproof matchup in which as previously stated Wolfir is Inferior in comparison to Augur.
Now I don't mean to harp on you, but if your reasoning for playing Wolfir/Think Twice etc is for the midrange/control matchups then it would leave one to believe you don't need cards like Psychic Spiral,Aetherling,Clone etc in the sideboard.If you are confident in Wolfir Avenger/Think Twice/Pike why mini stack your sideboard for even MORE control and midrange cards but still leave it rather weak against Aggro.
Just my 2 Cents,
Take out 1 Psychic Spiral,1 Naturalize,1 Ray of Revelation 1 Runechanter's Pike and 1 Clone
Add in 1 Renounce the Guilds , 2 Simic Charms, 1 dispel, 1 Progenitor Mimic
This way it makes the side in/sideouts a lot easier for a lot of the matchups and now in my opinion you are more equipped for Aggro/Hexproof and your Re animator matchup is stronger. You also have consistency in your removal and not hoping you draw Card A in A scenario. Now you can Draw Card A in A B and C Scenario.
I don't 100% disagree with the wolfir avenger, I just disagree with some of the other card choices based around him and now with most of the changes I recommended I feel your matchups that you concede game 1 too become a lot more stronger and more consistent games 2 and 3 in comparison the various array of enchantment hates and tapdown effects you had previously.
P.S. Personally I like Heroes' Reunion over Feeling of Dread for the sideboard I layed out but I am still confident it can be pulled off with Feeling of Dread. I would also try to find a place for an extra Selesyna Charm in your 75.
Highly contemplating a Second Moorland Haunt, card is surprisingly amazing for this deck not only with pike but just getting in on the slower grindy midrange/control decks, have forced out many of removal spells on 1/1 spirit. Also really helps against Deathrite Shaman if you do it on their turn, or bait something for Snapcaster.
Going on the Reactive Train for Reanimator Matchup. Sometimes Purify just isn't enough/is irrelevant if they rush the Acidic Slime, as most Reanimator decks like to do now a days. Giving them a lot of pushes with Augur, Moorland , Angels and Wurms really wears their removal thin, and that is when it is perfect time to drop a Progenitor Mimic and just keep recurring Acidic Slime, Thragtusk, Voice, Sin Collector, Augur of Bolas list goes on. Also Simic Charm Hexproof for Acidic Slime Shenanigans
Simic Charm, definitely another tech I am keeping.
Countermagic: Pretty set on 2 Rewind 1 Syncopate If Bant matchups or some Burning Tree Decks start getting really bad I may consider dropping an Unsummon for another Syncopate/ Essence Scatter Also Sold on the sideboard setup of 2 Dispel , 1 Negate and 1 Dissipate . Dispel is huge for resolving your Curse of Echoes , while Negate and Dissipate are amazing for hedging counter magic for Midrange and Reanimator respectively.
Sold on Heroes' Reunion for aggro sideboard matchup thought depending on the meta week to week, I am highly considering Druid's Deliverance for fog effect and synergy with Selesyna Charm and Advent of The Wurm
***Quick Ninja Update***:
I have taken out 2 Heroes' Reunion and 2 Terminus for 2 Supreme Verdicts,and 2 Feeling of Dread while moving 1 Renounce The Guild to the side for 1 Selesyna Charm to the main.
****** All testing so far has been done on about 100 Cockatrice Games, a Tuesday Night Standard Tourney and a Friday Night Magic.
Will be going to about 2 FNMs, 1 Game Day, 3 Tuesday Night Tourneys and possible a TCG Gold Event before I come back with more reporting.
The thing with Thought Scour vs Think Twice. Not only does Thought Scour work in conjunction with Runechanter's Pike, but it also works with Azorius Charm as a sort of removal option. Sure its 2 cards to kill one creature but you also get a draw out of it and prevent some damage. I've done that quite often to great effect against beastly creatures.
With Augur vs Wolfir, Wolfir can survive better yes, but if its the early game it doesn't as you need 5 mana then to protect it. Which by the time that becomes relevant in an aggro matchup, Augur would have been the better option for blocking. Coming down one turn sooner and possibly preventing any attacks for that turn is perhaps even more relevant than Wolfir. Not to mention netting a card that can save you sooner. Wolfir is also less relevant against Bant Auras (which is one of our worst matchups due to the hexproof). The reason is most of the time wolfir won't be able to chump enough of their creatures when many of their enchantments give evasion in one form or another. Augur comes down a turn sooner and can net you the answer you need that much sooner (while blocking an equal amount of damage) which is much more relevant.
As for Feeling of Dread, there has been much debate over that, Druid's Deliverance, or Heroes' Reunion. I suggest reading this: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10229595&postcount=179
If you don't see a lot of Voice of Resurgence, but Aggro is big in your area then Feeling of Dread or Druid's Deliverance would be decent. Probably Deliverance as it has the potential to stop more damage while netting you a 2nd 5/5. If you do see a lot of them, then I suggest Heroes' Reunion which is essentially a mini-fog that you can cast on your own turn and still have relevance.
I'm not sure how I feel about Aetherling, however if you're intention is to play it against control (while yes they certainly wouldn't expect it), you have to actually resolve it for it to be relevant. I guess the element of surprise might give you an upperhand there, but control decks typically run more counterspells than we do. While it is a great card and nearly impossible to kill, I just don't know there.
Good point on Thought Scour, that's a really good use. I'm going to test both, because I really like the card advantage from Think Twice, even though I admit that Thought Scour is more suited for this deck.
The things I don't like about Augur of Bolas are:
1) I have to tap out to play him. On turn 2 I want to be open for an Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Unsummon and so on.
2) He's 1/3 while most aggro threats are 2/2 or more, or don't care about dying (Gravecrawler, Strangleroot Geist etc). He's a wall most of the time.
3) He's a poor beater
On the other hand, Wolfir Avenger is a champ at blocking 2/2s even in the early game (it's a bit risky but it's a 1x1 at worse), and it's very difficult to deal with if I have 1G open. I actually play Faeries in Modern, and I know how important is to flash in blockers/attackers to change your race. I just need to test more, maybe I'll switch back to Augur.
The one thing that confused me about your deck is that you concede the fact that Wolfir is worse than Augur against aggro, but better against control midrange.
You also concede the fact Think Twice is better against midrange and control than thought scour
Now looking at your sideboard you have about 5 -7 cards to deal with control and midrange, while only 2 to deal with aggro ie Feeling of Dread and then an over abundance of cards that are all spread out to deal with the Hexproof matchup in which as previously stated Wolfir is Inferior in comparison to Augur.
Now I don't mean to harp on you, but if your reasoning for playing Wolfir/Think Twice etc is for the midrange/control matchups then it would leave one to believe you don't need cards like Psychic Spiral,Aetherling,Clone etc in the sideboard.If you are confident in Wolfir Avenger/Think Twice/Pike why mini stack your sideboard for even MORE control and midrange cards but still leave it rather weak against Aggro.
Just my 2 Cents,
Take out 1 Psychic Spiral,1 Naturalize,1 Ray of Revelation 1 Runechanter's Pike and 1 Clone
Add in 1 Renounce the Guilds , 2 Simic Charms, 1 dispel, 1 Progenitor Mimic
This way it makes the side in/sideouts a lot easier for a lot of the matchups and now in my opinion you are more equipped for Aggro/Hexproof and your Re animator matchup is stronger. You also have consistency in your removal and not hoping you draw Card A in A scenario. Now you can Draw Card A in A B and C Scenario.
I don't 100% disagree with the wolfir avenger, I just disagree with some of the other card choices based around him and now with most of the changes I recommended I feel your matchups that you concede game 1 too become a lot more stronger and more consistent games 2 and 3 in comparison the various array of enchantment hates and tapdown effects you had previously.
P.S. Personally I like Heroes' Reunion over Feeling of Dread for the sideboard I layed out but I am still confident it can be pulled off with Feeling of Dread. I would also try to find a place for an extra Selesyna Charm in your 75.
The extra Selesnya Charm would be great, but what should I cut? Maybe the Dissipate?
I don't really like Heroes' Reunion, the card is good but it's more of a personal preference. I feel like Feeling of Dread and Druid's Deliverance are more versatile, because they can be used both as offense or defense.
The things I don't like about Augur of Bolas are:
1) I have to tap out to play him. On turn 2 I want to be open for an Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Unsummon and so on.
2) He's 1/3 while most aggro threats are 2/2 or more, or don't care about dying (Gravecrawler, Strangleroot Geist etc). He's a wall most of the time.
3) He's a poor beater
On the other hand, Wolfir Avenger is a champ at blocking 2/2s even in the early game (it's a bit risky but it's a 1x1 at worse), and it's very difficult to deal with if I have 1G open. I actually play Faeries in Modern, and I know how important is to flash in blockers/attackers to change your race. I just need to test more, maybe I'll switch back to Augur.
The thing everyone likes about Auger, is that it replaces itself 86% of the time, and absorbs damage.
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Well on the same token you need to remember you can't always play your Flash deck in magical christmas land, in a deck where you have bounce effects, life gain via Sphinx and Azorius Charm and cheap/versatile countermagic and of course 5/5 and 3/4 EOT in your face beaters, that you sometimes have to play at a tempo pace rather than a control deck first, beat down deck later.
I'm sure you lost plenty of hexproof/aggro matchups saying if only I drew more verdicts and understand my point. A lot of games I watch people , Unsummon on 1, Selesyna Block on 2 ,Azorius Charm on turn 3, just to drop wurm and block on 4, Where they could have done whatever else on 3, blocked on 4, and then swung with life link on 5 etc.
In a deck that doesn't play 4 sweepers for a reason, I think that line of play needs to see more clarity. Of course this is just how I see it re watching my games or watching others play.
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Of course I wouldn't say take out verdict, but Aetherize could definitely deserve a sideboard slot or 2
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11178
If you don't feel like clicking the link, here is the summary. Opposing legendaries of the same name do not kill each other any more. AND if you get 2+ with the same name on the same side of the field, then one WILL survive. Holy crap! I don't know what to make of this rules change lol
Maybe this?
-2 Clone
+2 Aetherize
IDK I can't think right now
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Clone is still amazing for copying Thragtusks and Angel of Serenity etc. I don't think it should go away but I think the Progen Mimic just became ALOT better
Also for anyone interested here is the official announcement from Wizards website:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg%2Fdaily%2Ffeature%2F248e
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
Also Runechanter's Pike on Angel just became a lot better. Of course those colors also run Selesnya Charm. So there is that.
EDIT: Then again I guess you could just clone Sigarda and use that copy to block the original. However Geist + Evasion is still a problem.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Why did runechanters on Angel become a lot better? or do you just mean as an answer to sigarda etc?
P.S. we can also run those Thought Scours and Terminus <3
I don't see how Thought Scour helps against Hexproof.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
2 mana, you EoT Thought Scour into a Terminus. 2 mana, instant board sweep. If you look at most successful Terminus decks, they all run thought scours/other 1 mana draw spells.
Obviously the more you run the greater this holds true. You will Thought scour either them or yourself, preference really, sometimes you mill away the miracle draw.. But if you run 3/4 Terminus and 3/4 Scour you have 6 chances at hitting it in the first few turns geist will go online, if you count your turn and theirs, obviously it's not a fool proof plan, but either is hoping to draw a verdict on turn 4/5 when geists can go online on turn 3 for 12 damage or so.
Also mentioning you would run both terminus and Supreme, not one or the other.
Another perk is you can also hold true to the strategy of the deck ie filling up your graveyard/drawing more cards for Runechanter's as well as giving you the outs for a sweeper all in one.
P.S.
The reason this strategy wasn't used as much lately was because people just stuck to using clone etc, but with that being gone you may see a rise in it again or people might tech into Glaring Spotlight
This is true but I am more scared of a 5/5 olivia or so then a 3/3, and if that is the case, We have selesyna charm. Also don't forget we play unsummon/Simic Charm/Azorius Charm for a reason.
But in the grand scheme things, Yes it does suck :/
It is a dead issue against Sigarda on turn 5 but I am much more confident against a hexproof creature on turn 4/5 with an empty board then a 6+ damage threat on an empty board in turn 2/3
Sorry for any grammar/spelling errors, I mostly post from my tablet/smartphone.
Currently playing:
Standard:
UBRControl
Commander:
White Makes Right (Mikaeus, The Lunarch)
Izzet Fun Yet? (Jhoira of the Ghitu)
The Perfect Storm (Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge)
Dead Grave Walking (Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)
How Could You Be So Heartless? (Heartless Hidetsugu)
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Temple Garden
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Augur of Bolas
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Restoration Angel
4 Azorius Charm
1 Rewind
1 Runechanter's Pike
3 Selesnya Charm
1 Syncopate
4 Thought Scour
2 Unsummon
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Renounce the Guilds
3 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Dispel
1 Purify the Grave
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Dissipate
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Unsummon
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Clone
I finally ran into some of the aggro decks which all of the stats tell me are so common on MTGO. Matchups were boros blitz (2-1), which was basically mono red with a light red splash, the mirror (2-1), gruul blitz (2-0) and naya blitz (2-1). A lot of people in this thread seem to be worried about the aggro matchup, but i'm now 4-0 against aggro over the past few dailies, my issue previously has been I keep getting matched up against midrangey value decks which is not what this deck is good against. It's fundamentally favoured vs aggro though, especially with voices out of the board.
Not that I'm suddenly the expert on the deck or anything, but a couple of my thoughts:
* Resto angel is like the 5th advent, it's not crucial to the deck and I could see cutting it. It's ok because the deck wants more bodies, but you just get so little value out of it.
* This is probably the best thought scour deck I've ever played, and I think people are crazy if they don't maximise that by playing 4x snapcaster and at least one moorland haunt and pike.
* This isn't a particularly great supreme verdict deck, especially against an aggro player that has a brain, as verdict conflicts with the overall bounce/tempo plan. I could see cutting down to 1 maindeck, possibly for another angel.
* Unsummon is infini-better than simic charm. the one mana is relevant so often, being able to worm/resto with unsummon backup on turn 5 in response to bloodrush or whatever can be so important.
* 25 lands feels right, I don't think the deck wants to go up to 26 because its a tempo not a control deck. But hitting 4 is obviously crucial, and you don't play think twice, so can't get too greedy.
* Bring in dispel vs aggro AND control decks. The most dangerous cards in aggro matchups are often instants, eg. skullcrack in response to revelation, boros charm in response to verdict, so it's actually worth the slot. I did keep one 4 land hand which was land, land, land, dispel which felt pretty awkward at the time but I got the nut runner-runner-runner draw after that so it was all good :).
Fwiw, my estimates of how favourable/unfavourable the main matchs are based on my experience in dailies and testing:
Junk rites: 50-50
Aggro: 65-35
Jund midrange: 40-60
Bant enchant: 30-70
Bant control: 55-45
I've never run into RWB, aristocrats or dega. I feel like they're going to be fairly even, but not sure. Basically the deck is pretty fair, it has decent matchups against quite a few decks, a couple of bad ones, but nothing really dominant.
I can go into sideboard thoughts a bit more if anyone's interested.
So basically, it's a meta call.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
This is my current list:
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wolfir Avenger
3 Restoration Angel
Instant (23)
4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Azorius Charm
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Syncopate
1 Dissipate
1 Rewind
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Think Twice
2 Unsummon
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Runechanter's Pike
Sorcery (2)
2 Supreme Verdict
Land (25)
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Temple Garden
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Runechanter's Pike
2 Purify the Grave
1 Psychic Spiral
1 AEtherling
1 Renounce the Guilds
2 Negate
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Naturalize
1 Clone
2 Feeling of Dread
Yes, I'm playing Wolfir Avenger instead of Augur of Bolas. They're very different cards, but Wolfir is a better blocker, beater, is harder to remove, doesn't force me to tap out and so on. They fill different roles I know, but I find Wolfir to be more suited for my deck.
I'm also playing 4 Think Twice and 0 Thought Scour. I feel like the card advantage fromt TT is very relevant in 'slower' matchups (midrange and control), but still I would play a 2/3 split if I only had a free slot... no Thought Scour hurts my mono-Runechanter's Pyke a bit, but the most important thing from Pyke is first strike and a small damage boost (up to 5 power for my creatures is enough).
The rest of the maindeck is pretty standard, I'd play one more Selesnya Charm but I really don't know what to cut.
I'm currently testing Feeling of Dread in the sideboard, it's my answer to aggro together with one more Supreme Verdict. The other option is Druid's Deliverance, which is good as a simple fog, as an instant populate effect, or both, and also great with Snapcaster Mage around. I don't really know which is better.
The other tech is AEtherling. It's great against midrange and control, as they usually don't see it coming when tapping out for a Terminus or Obzedat, Ghost Council. I used to run another 1x in the MB, but later I cut him because I didn't like having him in my hand against faster decks.
What should I add to sideboard? Maybe a couple Ghost Quarter?
Comment and criticism is really appreciated here
The thing with Thought Scour vs Think Twice. Not only does Thought Scour work in conjunction with Runechanter's Pike, but it also works with Azorius Charm as a sort of removal option. Sure its 2 cards to kill one creature but you also get a draw out of it and prevent some damage. I've done that quite often to great effect against beastly creatures.
With Augur vs Wolfir, Wolfir can survive better yes, but if its the early game it doesn't as you need 5 mana then to protect it. Which by the time that becomes relevant in an aggro matchup, Augur would have been the better option for blocking. Coming down one turn sooner and possibly preventing any attacks for that turn is perhaps even more relevant than Wolfir. Not to mention netting a card that can save you sooner. Wolfir is also less relevant against Bant Auras (which is one of our worst matchups due to the hexproof). The reason is most of the time wolfir won't be able to chump enough of their creatures when many of their enchantments give evasion in one form or another. Augur comes down a turn sooner and can net you the answer you need that much sooner (while blocking an equal amount of damage) which is much more relevant.
As for Feeling of Dread, there has been much debate over that, Druid's Deliverance, or Heroes' Reunion. I suggest reading this:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10229595&postcount=179
If you don't see a lot of Voice of Resurgence, but Aggro is big in your area then Feeling of Dread or Druid's Deliverance would be decent. Probably Deliverance as it has the potential to stop more damage while netting you a 2nd 5/5. If you do see a lot of them, then I suggest Heroes' Reunion which is essentially a mini-fog that you can cast on your own turn and still have relevance.
I'm not sure how I feel about Aetherling, however if you're intention is to play it against control (while yes they certainly wouldn't expect it), you have to actually resolve it for it to be relevant. I guess the element of surprise might give you an upperhand there, but control decks typically run more counterspells than we do. While it is a great card and nearly impossible to kill, I just don't know there.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
The one thing that confused me about your deck is that you concede the fact that Wolfir is worse than Augur against aggro, but better against control midrange.
You also concede the fact Think Twice is better against midrange and control than thought scour
Now looking at your sideboard you have about 5 -7 cards to deal with control and midrange, while only 2 to deal with aggro ie Feeling of Dread and then an over abundance of cards that are all spread out to deal with the Hexproof matchup in which as previously stated Wolfir is Inferior in comparison to Augur.
Now I don't mean to harp on you, but if your reasoning for playing Wolfir/Think Twice etc is for the midrange/control matchups then it would leave one to believe you don't need cards like Psychic Spiral,Aetherling,Clone etc in the sideboard.If you are confident in Wolfir Avenger/Think Twice/Pike why mini stack your sideboard for even MORE control and midrange cards but still leave it rather weak against Aggro.
Just my 2 Cents,
Take out 1 Psychic Spiral,1 Naturalize,1 Ray of Revelation 1 Runechanter's Pike and 1 Clone
Add in 1 Renounce the Guilds , 2 Simic Charms, 1 dispel, 1 Progenitor Mimic
This way it makes the side in/sideouts a lot easier for a lot of the matchups and now in my opinion you are more equipped for Aggro/Hexproof and your Re animator matchup is stronger. You also have consistency in your removal and not hoping you draw Card A in A scenario. Now you can Draw Card A in A B and C Scenario.
I don't 100% disagree with the wolfir avenger, I just disagree with some of the other card choices based around him and now with most of the changes I recommended I feel your matchups that you concede game 1 too become a lot more stronger and more consistent games 2 and 3 in comparison the various array of enchantment hates and tapdown effects you had previously.
P.S. Personally I like Heroes' Reunion over Feeling of Dread for the sideboard I layed out but I am still confident it can be pulled off with Feeling of Dread. I would also try to find a place for an extra Selesyna Charm in your 75.
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Breeding Pool
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Temple Garden
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
Creatures: 9
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Restoration Angel
3 Augur of Bolas
4 Advent of the Wurm
3 Thought Scour
2 Rewind
1 Syncopate
4 Azorius Charm
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Simic Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
Sorcery: 2
2 Supreme Verdict
Artifacts: 1
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Negate
2 Feeling of Dread
1 Curse of Echoes
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Renounce the Guilds
1 Dissipate
2 Dispel
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Progenitor Mimic
1 Aetherling
***Keynotes***
Highly contemplating a Second Moorland Haunt, card is surprisingly amazing for this deck not only with pike but just getting in on the slower grindy midrange/control decks, have forced out many of removal spells on 1/1 spirit. Also really helps against Deathrite Shaman if you do it on their turn, or bait something for Snapcaster.
Going on the Reactive Train for Reanimator Matchup. Sometimes Purify just isn't enough/is irrelevant if they rush the Acidic Slime, as most Reanimator decks like to do now a days. Giving them a lot of pushes with Augur, Moorland , Angels and Wurms really wears their removal thin, and that is when it is perfect time to drop a Progenitor Mimic and just keep recurring Acidic Slime, Thragtusk, Voice, Sin Collector, Augur of Bolas list goes on. Also Simic Charm Hexproof for Acidic Slime Shenanigans
Simic Charm, definitely another tech I am keeping.
Pretty set in on always running 3 Augur of Bolas. Still unsure if to go to 3 Restoration Angel and down to 3 Snapcaster Mage but as I said I am going to grind this out for a while.
Countermagic: Pretty set on 2 Rewind 1 Syncopate If Bant matchups or some Burning Tree Decks start getting really bad I may consider dropping an Unsummon for another Syncopate/ Essence Scatter Also Sold on the sideboard setup of 2 Dispel , 1 Negate and 1 Dissipate . Dispel is huge for resolving your Curse of Echoes , while Negate and Dissipate are amazing for hedging counter magic for Midrange and Reanimator respectively.
Thought Scour , Definitely sold on Thought Scour over Think Twice. The 1 mana is so huge, the dig is amazing along with Augur and Sphinx's Revelation and the Synergy with Runechanter's Pike Ray of Revelation and Snapcaster Mage is unmatched.
***Quick Ninja Update***:
I have taken out 2 Heroes' Reunion and 2 Terminus for 2 Supreme Verdicts,and 2 Feeling of Dread while moving 1 Renounce The Guild to the side for 1 Selesyna Charm to the main.
******
All testing so far has been done on about 100 Cockatrice Games, a Tuesday Night Standard Tourney and a Friday Night Magic.
Will be going to about 2 FNMs, 1 Game Day, 3 Tuesday Night Tourneys and possible a TCG Gold Event before I come back with more reporting.
Happy Hunting!
******
Good point on Thought Scour, that's a really good use. I'm going to test both, because I really like the card advantage from Think Twice, even though I admit that Thought Scour is more suited for this deck.
The things I don't like about Augur of Bolas are:
1) I have to tap out to play him. On turn 2 I want to be open for an Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Unsummon and so on.
2) He's 1/3 while most aggro threats are 2/2 or more, or don't care about dying (Gravecrawler, Strangleroot Geist etc). He's a wall most of the time.
3) He's a poor beater
On the other hand, Wolfir Avenger is a champ at blocking 2/2s even in the early game (it's a bit risky but it's a 1x1 at worse), and it's very difficult to deal with if I have 1G open. I actually play Faeries in Modern, and I know how important is to flash in blockers/attackers to change your race. I just need to test more, maybe I'll switch back to Augur.
You're right, I actually have some problems siding against aggro. I think I'll do:
-1 Naturalize -1 Runechanter's Pyke
+2 Simic Charm
I'm also thinking of 1-2 Terminus, and Progenitor Mimic instead of Clone.
The extra Selesnya Charm would be great, but what should I cut? Maybe the Dissipate?
I don't really like Heroes' Reunion, the card is good but it's more of a personal preference. I feel like Feeling of Dread and Druid's Deliverance are more versatile, because they can be used both as offense or defense.
The thing everyone likes about Auger, is that it replaces itself 86% of the time, and absorbs damage.
- Howard Shultz
CURRENTLY PLAYING
UWR: American Control