I'm only quoting you because it's a good starting point.
Can anyone please define "mental illness" in the context of applying to own a firearm.
The American Psychiatric Association once believed that homosexuality was a mental illness.
I believe any mental illness that disqualifies a person from the death penalty on the basis that they did not understand the consequence of their actions should also disqualify people from owning firearms.
If an adult with the mental development of a three year old cannot be sentenced to death for murder, then they also should not be permitted to own a firearm under the same justification - they didn't understand the consequences of their actions.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
You got upset and started raging about "lefties" when I pointed out that countries with stricter gun laws have lower rates of gun violence. You refuse to rebut any opinion based on facts that disagrees with your own, preferring instead to just launch into mad diatribes about the ignorance of your opponents.
To be fair, countries that have far less restrictive gun laws, or have more guns in the hands of citizens, also have much lower rates of gun violence. There are obviously other factors contributing to crime, no?
For both of you, citation needed.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
If you make it illegal to own guns, even certain type guns in the U.S. it will just make criminals out of more people who refuse to give up their guns.
Fixed it for you. There is no such thing as a semiautomatic assault rifle, because the defining characteristic of an assault rifle is that it has either a burst mode of fire (3 to 5 rounds per trigger pull typically) or an automatic mode of fire (rounds fire for as long as the trigger is pulled) in addition to the typical "Safe" and "Semi" modes.
I believe this to be true also until I have seen on the gunsmith shows on cable that there are now assault rifles with 4 way switches. safety/single shot/burst/full auto. Not going to lie, when I found out about them, I wanted one.
In the end its education. The more educated a person is about guns and gun safety the less likely you will see such gun violence. Even then you are not going to eliminate it completely.
Well, you can look at a case like Switzerland, which is comparable to the US in terms of gun ownership (less per capita, but higher ownership rate), but has drastically less gun crime. They also have far less poverty.
There's some more data on gun crimes and ownership around the world. While the US has by far the most guns, it doesn't have the highest rate of gun crime.
I think a lot of people are being extremely Naive on this topic. The knowledge is out there for everyone, you just have to ask the people that actually know about it. The Media doesn't know anything about firearms, and most are inclined to simply demonize them. In the end it's not the firearm that is committing the violence, it's the person carrying it.
I want to point out that even the police have no ****ing clue who the actual bad guys are when they enter a situation like this. They will arrest and demand everyone with a gun to drop to the floor and surrender their weapons.
To pretend that your training can tell you exactly who the bad guys are that have a gun when we are talking about 10 armed people hypothetically is a joke.
Especially with tear gas in the facility and people running over other people trying to get away.
In a bank robbery the police take EVERYONE in for questioning that was at the scene, because some might be undercover or disguising themselves as hostages.
Yes, everyone that attends the CCW course is already aware of this. That is why we teach them to not reload the firearm and to set it on ground and stand by it until the police arrive on the scene. You act like this hasn't been worked out all over the country. We have taught this procedure to everyone, and it's common practice among all CCW holders.
It wasn't quoted as military grade tear gas - even assuming he bought it purchased, http://www.keepshooting.com/clear-out-6oz-tear-gas-grenade.html had what claims to be military grade tear gas for $17 and will "incapacitate a large crowd" (And I found a quote now of him using two - so $34 - a whopping amount) [And on the timeframe, note it's been quoted that he'd been shopping for this plan for AT LEAST 6 months]
CS Gas is CS gas, there is no difference in strength. It only comes in one variety. CS is a highly restricted and controlled substance. What that link has is pepper spray in a grenade form. Tear Gas is CS Gas. That crap in the can wouldn't do anything other than make a pretty mist.Either it's a case of the Media not having a clue what they are talking about, not uncommon, or they are intentionally misleading the public with false information, which is equally likely.
And yes, he had body armor - from the WSJ: gas mask, armored helmet, tactical body armor (Military rating 3 - enough to reasonably stop anything less than a .44 [note: My friend currently contracting in Afghanistan quotes his "military gear" given to him as a contractor as rating 2 mind you - worse than this guy used), tactical leggings with metal reinforcements, armored leather boots.
That was proven to have been false, he was not wearing Body Armor of any kind...
What your buddy get's are the inserts only, all contractor's get this. You have to buy your own plates, which is why I had posted previously that I own my plates and they are not cheap. If he isn't buying plates that's on him, they are available for purchase.
He did have an ammo vest over top of the rest that has been misreported on some NRA-related sites as being the ONLY thing he wore for "protection" but that's absolutely false when you read up from the places that actually detail the armor worn.
Yes, because a bunch newsies that are anti-gun will report accurately on something they know nothing about. They published his purchases, he bought all of his gear from a single online retailer, which does not sell Body Armor. I know every single place on the Internet that you can buy Body Armor from. There's only 3 that do not require proof of ID for usage, or Licensing.
I'm against the NRA, but that is a different thread.
I'll just add:
A metal plate is not going to stop a round. it takes roughly half an inch of 1040 steel to stop a 9mm round at 15 meters. No one is going to be standing after taking something like that. That is a lot of kinetic energy with today's 9mm rounds. A .40 will do more than knock you senseless at that same range.
CCW licenses vary in how they're required by the locality in question - some do not have training courses required. All should however, I agree - and a trained person would be less likely to take a bad shot. (although do keep in mind, tear gas makes vision a very difficult proposition)
47 states require 16 hours of training for the CCW. I have my CCW, and I carry daily. I have been through the process twice in the past 10 years. I used to teach the CCW course here in Arizona. The process was standardized as part of the Firearm Coalition initiative. We have all recognized the issues involved and adjusted accordingly.
And? What civilian keeps a 40 cal on them for defense? They're largely inconveniently sized and weighted for "day to day" carry. Sure, one or two might have had one, but to think there'd be multiples - poppycock.
I carry a .40. A lot of people do. Almost everyone I know carries one now. A .40 can be the same size as a 9mm, and some are even smaller. What you lose in capacity you gain in stopping power. Stopping power is far more important, then like everything else the gap is the shooter.
And again CCW varies by locality - the only one I've lived in DID NOT require courses - I'm sure most do, at least I sure hope they do.
Things have changed.
I'll admit my pistol experience is light, but fired plenty of long-arms up to when my neurologic issues started (stopped for obvious reasons) - but even today, with friends in active military service RIGHT NOW in worse armor than this guy was using they're not too afraid of most pistol fire.
I spent 5 years wearing Body Armor issued by Uncle Sam. It was never below Level 4. Your friends are not in a combat unit if they are wearing garbage for Body Armor. Sounds like the Navy or Airforce, which rarely ever sees actual combat.
I have a torn Ulna Nerve in my left shoulder, I shake like a fiend due to the nerve damage in my spine and left side. I still shoot out to 1000meters and beyond whenever I get the chance. Under 800 Meters I can hit anything I can see, past that, I'm about a 50% on rounds on target. I can hit any target with just about any handgun that is decently accurate. Not sure your conditions, but I have been just fine with shooting, I'm just not as accurate as I used to be.
[Although I will say, one of the two on active service right now did take a small bore bullet through a vest that put him on leave for a while - he's not responded today about what rating said vest was however. But the bullet didn't penetrate, broke a couple ribs though - put him on drill sergeant duty at home a few months while recouping before next deployment]
If the round didn't penetrate, the vest did what it supposed to do. Drill duty isn't a stay at home for leave assignment in any branch. It's a 3 year Tour in the Army, 2 years in the Navy and the Air Force has an actual MOS for it.
And if we lower speed limits, it just makes criminals out of those who refuse to drive safe speeds.
Apples and oranges.
But what you suggest has happened before in the past. If you look, the number of speeding tickets did go up when they lowered the speed limit nation wide. People were pissed, law abiding citizens that had good driving records were now getting speeding tickets.
But what you suggest has happened before in the past. If you look, the number of speeding tickets did go up when they lowered the speed limit nation wide. People were pissed, law abiding citizens that had good driving records were now getting speeding tickets.
It was pretty dumb if you lived out in say Montana and had to drive like 2-3 hours to get any where, lowering the speed limit didn't do much except make for driving longer. This is in a point that "regional" levels of governance may very well be better to handle certain kinds of regulations in specific belts especially when you consider private-public partnerships and other means by which to manage CPR.
When you get to the western states there's not a whole lot of law enforcement, either. Whilst I do not support vigilantism, a level of rugged individualism and a different culture takes hold. I grew up urban, but when you get out of the city a bit and look at those cultures and the actual geography and population density you get a good sense why things are a certain way. Which is why I also bring up the point that what maybe good for western states and some southern states, is not transmissible to the higher density and more urbane states.
I'm all for good governance, but that good governance doesn't always translate to every state in a top down manner.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I believe any mental illness that disqualifies a person from the death penalty on the basis that they did not understand the consequence of their actions should also disqualify people from owning firearms.
If an adult with the mental development of a three year old cannot be sentenced to death for murder, then they also should not be permitted to own a firearm under the same justification - they didn't understand the consequences of their actions.
So your plan is to take what are already the most vulnerable members of society, who are already disproportionately victims, and make them incapable of defending themselves? If fear of gun retaliation really prevented crimes, you've just created the perfect target; the only members of society who can't have guns. I hope you have a plan to protect them.
It was pretty dumb if you lived out in say Montana and had to drive like 2-3 hours to get any where, lowering the speed limit didn't do much except make for driving longer. This is in a point that "regional" levels of governance may very well be better to handle certain kinds of regulations in specific belts especially when you consider private-public partnerships and other means by which to manage CPR.
When you get to the western states there's not a whole lot of law enforcement, either. Whilst I do not support vigilantism, a level of rugged individualism and a different culture takes hold. I grew up urban, but when you get out of the city a bit and look at those cultures and the actual geography and population density you get a good sense why things are a certain way. Which is why I also bring up the point that what maybe good for western states and some southern states, is not transmissible to the higher density and more urbane states.
I'm all for good governance, but that good governance doesn't always translate to every state in a top down manner.
I agree with everything you have said. When I was young I remember the speed limits on highways was safe and reasonable. There was no set limit. When they instituted the 55mph limit people were just used to driving safe and reasonable. I remember the older people really pissed by the change.
Its nice to see some states starting to change the limits on their own. Wisconsin and Minnesota are 65mph outside larger city limits, both states are pushing for 75mph. Texas just legalized 85mph, and some western states have 75mph. I think this is one of the areas the federal government needs to leave to the states to decide. I personally would love to see safe and reasonable come back, but I know thats just wishful thinking,
Same thinking should be allowed for guns too. Problem is the 2 sides arguing at state level cant reach a compromise and defer to the federal level.
So your plan is to take what are already the most vulnerable members of society, who are already disproportionately victims, and make them incapable of defending themselves? If fear of gun retaliation really prevented crimes, you've just created the perfect target; the only members of society who can't have guns. I hope you have a plan to protect them.
Children are disproportionatly the victim if crimes too, i sapose we should give them guns too...I am honestly not a fan of gun control, it is our right as americans to own guns but there still need to be limitations on who can get them. If you have a proven history of certain types of mental illness such as certain personality disorders which make you unreasonably violent or certain mental handy caps which make you unable to judge consiquences of your actions (such as those illnessez which allow you to make the defence of insanity) you should not be given easy access, if any at all, to guns.
Do we need more gun controls? Perhaps. I personally bepieve if someone had been there with a concealed carry gun hen this shooting rampage would have ended much sooner. Violent or not it is an effective way to deal with a situation
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Trolling can be defined as "A art, one specifically designed to misdirect, anger, or confuse others by reporting meaningful information in a clear, coherent way."
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
So your plan is to take what are already the most vulnerable members of society, who are already disproportionately victims, and make them incapable of defending themselves? If fear of gun retaliation really prevented crimes, you've just created the perfect target; the only members of society who can't have guns. I hope you have a plan to protect them.
How about we just set a requirement that if you have a clear background (no felonies at all, select misdemeanors okay, no history of mental illness such as paranoia or schizophrenia) and pass a basic gun safety and use course, you can purchase a firearm?
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47 states require 16 hours of training for the CCW. I have my CCW, and I carry daily. I have been through the process twice in the past 10 years. I used to teach the CCW course here in Arizona. The process was standardized as part of the Firearm Coalition initiative. We have all recognized the issues involved and adjusted accordingly.
I'm referencing civilian CCW - which doesn't exist in that many states I know damn well. (Considering I've lived in four that do not have civilian CCW)
I carry a .40. A lot of people do. Almost everyone I know carries one now. A .40 can be the same size as a 9mm, and some are even smaller. What you lose in capacity you gain in stopping power. Stopping power is far more important, then like everything else the gap is the shooter.
You gain a TON in weight and discomfort on the carry however - I'm a slight guy, and just holding a 40 briefly feels like a brick in my hands compared to a 9mm for example.
Sure, for trained police officers and military, I have no doubt carrying a 40 isn't a rarity - but for people that carry as a side interest rather than part of their work, I can't see too many people going for a full time 40 carry.
I spent 5 years wearing Body Armor issued by Uncle Sam. It was never below Level 4. Your friends are not in a combat unit if they are wearing garbage for Body Armor. Sounds like the Navy or Airforce, which rarely ever sees actual combat.
First friend is contracting on engineering work, he was Navy while enlisted however. Second friend I've not heard what his quality was as of yet, probably top notch at the time however, since he was part of a the bodyguard detail for a General.
I have a torn Ulna Nerve in my left shoulder, I shake like a fiend due to the nerve damage in my spine and left side. I still shoot out to 1000meters and beyond whenever I get the chance. Under 800 Meters I can hit anything I can see, past that, I'm about a 50% on rounds on target. I can hit any target with just about any handgun that is decently accurate. Not sure your conditions, but I have been just fine with shooting, I'm just not as accurate as I used to be.
I've not tried shooting since my neurlogic issues have cropped up, but that doesn't sound dissimilar from the part that effects my hands - maybe it's worth trying to do some targets again since you sound to be in a similar boat and doing reasonably well, but I'm certainly not going hunting for buck again either way.
If the round didn't penetrate, the vest did what it supposed to do. Drill duty isn't a stay at home for leave assignment in any branch. It's a 3 year Tour in the Army, 2 years in the Navy and the Air Force has an actual MOS for it.
He got sent to Fort Hood to train folks for 9 months after 3 months of complete downtime to heal and get back home from what I recall - maybe 18 months total between both - definitely wasn't 3 years though. We'd been out of touch and he got back in touch like day 1 of drill duty - and he's already back out there, and based on when he friended me on Steam which was shortly after we got back in touch - it's been about 2 years. (And he's Army)
Maybe Ft. Hood training is different or his circumstances created a special circumstance they allowed. No clue.
I'm referencing civilian CCW - which doesn't exist in that many states I know damn well. (Considering I've lived in four that do not have civilian CCW)
There are only 3 States that do not have Civilian CCW. Some States are trying to pull the, "Will-Not" issue argument, but a call from a lawyer fixes them on that front. If their laws allow for it, they have to issue it.
You gain a TON in weight and discomfort on the carry however - I'm a slight guy, and just holding a 40 briefly feels like a brick in my hands compared to a 9mm for example.
My .40 weighs less than my 9. It's smaller too. I carry the 9 when I'm going shooting with the Nephew or someone, because the .40 kicks like a cannon.
Sure, for trained police officers and military, I have no doubt carrying a 40 isn't a rarity - but for people that carry as a side interest rather than part of their work, I can't see too many people going for a full time 40 carry.
There is a very large portion of the CCW community carrying a .40. There's a large portion that also carry 1911's. I'm a little dude, so I'm not going to find a 1911 that will fit in my pocket.
First friend is contracting on engineering work, he was Navy while enlisted however. Second friend I've not heard what his quality was as of yet, probably top notch at the time however, since he was part of a the bodyguard detail for a General.
Generals do not leave secured facilities. The last time I dealt with a Personal Security detail they never left the wire, so their Body Armor wouldn't be of much use to them. The whole Army has had IBA's in the very least since about 2004. IBA's are level 4 with plates.
I've not tried shooting since my neurlogic issues have cropped up, but that doesn't sound dissimilar from the part that effects my hands - maybe it's worth trying to do some targets again since you sound to be in a similar boat and doing reasonably well, but I'm certainly not going hunting for buck again either way.
Give it a shot, lol pun. I wouldn't go deer hunting unless you're doing it from a hide with your condition, and even then I would be hesitant to move around with the weapon loaded. I haven't gone hunting since I was injured, so I can't speak about that. I just stick to what I know I can do.
He got sent to Fort Hood to train folks for 9 months after 3 months of complete downtime to heal and get back home from what I recall - maybe 18 months total between both - definitely wasn't 3 years though. We'd been out of touch and he got back in touch like day 1 of drill duty - and he's already back out there, and based on when he friended me on Steam which was shortly after we got back in touch - it's been about 2 years. (And he's Army)
Maybe Ft. Hood training is different or his circumstances created a special circumstance they allowed. No clue.
Ft. Hood, sounds like he's doing AIT duty, which means he's training the MOS portion after the Drills have eaten them up. He's got the easy job. I wouldn't wish being a Drill Sergeant upon anyone, that job is nightmare.
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Legacy Decks
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Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
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Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
I am completely against any firearms ban, because such a thing is unquestionably unconstitutional and flat-out insanity. The Right to Bear Arms has one purpose: to provide a final recourse against anyone infringing against a person's rights, specifically the government. To ask the government to remove the recourse against a corrupt government is insanity.
What really put things in perspective for me was today on CNN, for a period of time, the Syria conflict was right next to the headline story of the Colorado shootings. Colorado was a heinous crime, and I in no way wish to diminish it, but it was really affecting to recognize such violence is a regular occurrence in Syria, and that the perpetrator is not a single madman but the government.
To me, anyone who looks at these two incidents of violence and actually promotes firearm banning has completely and totally missed the point. How we regulate firearms laws is a different story, but a ban is outright absurd to me.
A semiautomatic can only fire off as many rounds per minute as you can flex your finger. Which means a semiautomatic is not firing "hundreds of rounds a minute" without reloading (in fact, no gun is doing that unless it's a belt fed machine gun since the largest magazine generally available is 100 rounds). Only automatics are able to reach that rate of fire.
To be fair, though, my understanding of semi-automatics at least is that the difference between one and an automatic is just a few screws.
To be fair, though, my understanding of semi-automatics at least is that the difference between one and an automatic is just a few screws.
It's a bit more than a few screws these days. And a felony charge. And as was pointed out earlier (in the original thread)...if you aren't perfectly precise, you risk the gun blowing up on you or it locking in a firing position and won't stop firing until the clip is empty (whether or not you're holding the trigger).
Modifying a semiautomatic to be automatic is very dangerous, both to your physical well being and to your criminal background. Although to be fair, if you are modifying a semiautomatic to an automatic...you probably don't care about your criminal background.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
Question for those arguing a link between firearms restriction and safety: My understanding is that Colorado makes it illegal for anyone to carry firearms in certain locations, one of them being movie theaters.
Now, I don't know if this is true, so I definitely need someone to clarify on this. However, if it IS true, would anyone care to comment on that?
Question for those arguing a link between firearms restriction and safety: My understanding is that Colorado makes it illegal for anyone to carry firearms in certain locations, one of them being movie theaters.
Now, I don't know if this is true, so I definitely need someone to clarify on this. However, if it IS true, would anyone care to comment on that?
It's my understanding that that is not Colorado law, but it a rule implemented by the company that runs the Century 16 theater.
Is not the point of the Second Amendment specifically to ensure a recourse against the military and the police?
I am pro-2nd Amendment, but I do support some common sense restrictions (such as background checks and preventing people with violent mental illnesses like paranoia and schizophrenia from owning guns). And owning a 100 round drum magazine for a semiautomatic rifle strikes me as unnecessary. That is not to say that I wouldn't want one myself - eventually I do plan on building my own AR-15 and certainly would not mind have a drum magazine. But I don't feel it is something a civilian truly needs - not that we "need" a lot of the things we have access to.
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I was driven from this once-great site by abusive mods and admins, who create rules out of thin air to punish people for breaking them (meaning the rule does not exist under forum rules) and selectively enforce the rules that are written on the forum rules. I am currently lurking while deleting 6 years and 2 months of posting history. I will return when ExpiredRascals, Teia Rabishu and Blinking Spirit are no longer in power.
It's my understanding that that is not Colorado law, but it a rule implemented by the company that runs the Century 16 theater.
I am pro-2nd Amendment, but I do support some common sense restrictions (such as background checks and preventing people with violent mental illnesses like paranoia and schizophrenia from owning guns). And owning a 100 round drum magazine for a semiautomatic rifle strikes me as unnecessary. That is not to say that I wouldn't want one myself - eventually I do plan on building my own AR-15 and certainly would not mind have a drum magazine. But I don't feel it is something a civilian truly needs - not that we "need" a lot of the things we have access to.
I tend to agree with the person you quoted though, our for fathers gave us the right to bare arms just for the sake of personal protection but so that the government could never oppress us like it was back in the day, not without the ability to fight back if the military were to be turned on its own people at least...and for that matter I really dont trust the police running around with guns, I realise they are required for personal protection but there have been to many cases of police officers oppressing common citizens rights and liberties along with other events such as one that just happend in florida recently. A couple of police officers came banging on someones door at 1:30 in the morning and didn't announce themselves then shot the home owner dead when he showed up to the door armed. He wasn't even pointing the gun AT them, he just had it and the cops shot him dead on the spot, no questions asked. AND they didn't even have the right house. The cop that did it wont even be charged with a crime nor will the police station apoligize and implement changes so this never happens again.
And just to be clear I am not encouraging violence against police officers OR the military, I just sleep a little more soundly at night knowing we would be a little bit better off then the Syrians in the event of something like that.
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Trolling can be defined as "A art, one specifically designed to misdirect, anger, or confuse others by reporting meaningful information in a clear, coherent way."
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
I am completely against any firearms ban, because such a thing is unquestionably unconstitutional and flat-out insanity. The Right to Bear Arms has one purpose: to provide a final recourse against anyone infringing against a person's rights, specifically the government. To ask the government to remove the recourse against a corrupt government is insanity.
I hate when people infringe upon my God-given right to own a tank!
Anyone who believes the right to bear arms actually means we have recourse against the government is fooling themselves. Even if every single non-military citizen had a fully automatic firearm with full tactical body armor, any violent uprising would be CRUSHED by the military. The ONLY way an uprising/coup could ever be successful is if the US military fought against the government. There is zero percent chance of success otherwise. So get off your high horse about the (in)ability to protect us from tyranny.
Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
You refuse to rebut any opinion based on facts that disagrees with your own, preferring instead to just launch into mad diatribes about the ignorance of your opponents.
This is true, but they don't seem to have lower murder rates. People who want to kill people do so.
According to the "small arms survey", the average number of people getting murdered each year with guns, per 100.000 inhabitants, is in the USA at about 3.45, and in Germany at about 0.19. That's more than 18 times as many people getting killed by guns. And that does consider Germany having a smaller population than the USA. How can you still say, that it's safer when every idiot got a gun? It's just crazy.
Care to provide the overall murder/violent crime rate for us? Perhaps you can refute my statement.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I hate when people infringe upon my God-given right to own a tank!
Anyone who believes the right to bear arms actually means we have recourse against the government is fooling themselves. Even if every single non-military citizen had a fully automatic firearm with full tactical body armor, any violent uprising would be CRUSHED by the military. The ONLY way an uprising/coup could ever be successful is if the US military fought against the government. There is zero percent chance of success otherwise. So get off your high horse about the (in)ability to protect us from tyranny.
Just like how the highly trained and better equipped British Army crushed that pesky rebellion of untrained farmers in the colonies back in the 1770s...
Wait...
The untrained farmers beat the better trained and equipped British Army.
Pesky history getting in the way of the left wing fantasy world...guess they got to rewrite the American Revolution next to have defectors from the British Army helping them win.
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Yes because the difference between firepower at that time and those armies is the equivalent of the difference in firepower now.
Pesky......forget it, its not even worth mocking, if you cant see how ridiculous a statement it is to compare them then you are a lost cause.
At least when people argue its for personal protection from criminals its a semi legitimate point. The idea that if the government HAD the backing of the army, that you and your pea shooters could make a difference is laughable. Wake up.
Edit. Actually no, lets play this out. A US Tank is moving down the street towards your house intent on blowing it up with your family inside. Tell me what legal guns you have at your disposal that you use to stop it. Guns only since this only pertains to gun control. Ill be interested to hear this.
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Infracted for sheer awesomeness!
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I believe any mental illness that disqualifies a person from the death penalty on the basis that they did not understand the consequence of their actions should also disqualify people from owning firearms.
If an adult with the mental development of a three year old cannot be sentenced to death for murder, then they also should not be permitted to own a firearm under the same justification - they didn't understand the consequences of their actions.
For both of you, citation needed.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
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I believe this to be true also until I have seen on the gunsmith shows on cable that there are now assault rifles with 4 way switches. safety/single shot/burst/full auto. Not going to lie, when I found out about them, I wanted one.
In the end its education. The more educated a person is about guns and gun safety the less likely you will see such gun violence. Even then you are not going to eliminate it completely.
Well, you can look at a case like Switzerland, which is comparable to the US in terms of gun ownership (less per capita, but higher ownership rate), but has drastically less gun crime. They also have far less poverty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list?newsfeed=true
There's some more data on gun crimes and ownership around the world. While the US has by far the most guns, it doesn't have the highest rate of gun crime.
Yes, everyone that attends the CCW course is already aware of this. That is why we teach them to not reload the firearm and to set it on ground and stand by it until the police arrive on the scene. You act like this hasn't been worked out all over the country. We have taught this procedure to everyone, and it's common practice among all CCW holders.
CS Gas is CS gas, there is no difference in strength. It only comes in one variety. CS is a highly restricted and controlled substance. What that link has is pepper spray in a grenade form. Tear Gas is CS Gas. That crap in the can wouldn't do anything other than make a pretty mist.Either it's a case of the Media not having a clue what they are talking about, not uncommon, or they are intentionally misleading the public with false information, which is equally likely.
That was proven to have been false, he was not wearing Body Armor of any kind...
What your buddy get's are the inserts only, all contractor's get this. You have to buy your own plates, which is why I had posted previously that I own my plates and they are not cheap. If he isn't buying plates that's on him, they are available for purchase.
Yes, because a bunch newsies that are anti-gun will report accurately on something they know nothing about. They published his purchases, he bought all of his gear from a single online retailer, which does not sell Body Armor. I know every single place on the Internet that you can buy Body Armor from. There's only 3 that do not require proof of ID for usage, or Licensing.
Even the Huffpo, the bastion of Liberal Media states otherwise:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/james-holmes-weapons-internet_n_1694451.html
No mention of Body Armor, I wonder why....
I'm against the NRA, but that is a different thread.
I'll just add:
A metal plate is not going to stop a round. it takes roughly half an inch of 1040 steel to stop a 9mm round at 15 meters. No one is going to be standing after taking something like that. That is a lot of kinetic energy with today's 9mm rounds. A .40 will do more than knock you senseless at that same range.
47 states require 16 hours of training for the CCW. I have my CCW, and I carry daily. I have been through the process twice in the past 10 years. I used to teach the CCW course here in Arizona. The process was standardized as part of the Firearm Coalition initiative. We have all recognized the issues involved and adjusted accordingly.
I carry a .40. A lot of people do. Almost everyone I know carries one now. A .40 can be the same size as a 9mm, and some are even smaller. What you lose in capacity you gain in stopping power. Stopping power is far more important, then like everything else the gap is the shooter.
Things have changed.
I spent 5 years wearing Body Armor issued by Uncle Sam. It was never below Level 4. Your friends are not in a combat unit if they are wearing garbage for Body Armor. Sounds like the Navy or Airforce, which rarely ever sees actual combat.
I have a torn Ulna Nerve in my left shoulder, I shake like a fiend due to the nerve damage in my spine and left side. I still shoot out to 1000meters and beyond whenever I get the chance. Under 800 Meters I can hit anything I can see, past that, I'm about a 50% on rounds on target. I can hit any target with just about any handgun that is decently accurate. Not sure your conditions, but I have been just fine with shooting, I'm just not as accurate as I used to be.
If the round didn't penetrate, the vest did what it supposed to do. Drill duty isn't a stay at home for leave assignment in any branch. It's a 3 year Tour in the Army, 2 years in the Navy and the Air Force has an actual MOS for it.
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Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
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Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
Apples and oranges.
But what you suggest has happened before in the past. If you look, the number of speeding tickets did go up when they lowered the speed limit nation wide. People were pissed, law abiding citizens that had good driving records were now getting speeding tickets.
It was pretty dumb if you lived out in say Montana and had to drive like 2-3 hours to get any where, lowering the speed limit didn't do much except make for driving longer. This is in a point that "regional" levels of governance may very well be better to handle certain kinds of regulations in specific belts especially when you consider private-public partnerships and other means by which to manage CPR.
When you get to the western states there's not a whole lot of law enforcement, either. Whilst I do not support vigilantism, a level of rugged individualism and a different culture takes hold. I grew up urban, but when you get out of the city a bit and look at those cultures and the actual geography and population density you get a good sense why things are a certain way. Which is why I also bring up the point that what maybe good for western states and some southern states, is not transmissible to the higher density and more urbane states.
I'm all for good governance, but that good governance doesn't always translate to every state in a top down manner.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I agree with everything you have said. When I was young I remember the speed limits on highways was safe and reasonable. There was no set limit. When they instituted the 55mph limit people were just used to driving safe and reasonable. I remember the older people really pissed by the change.
Its nice to see some states starting to change the limits on their own. Wisconsin and Minnesota are 65mph outside larger city limits, both states are pushing for 75mph. Texas just legalized 85mph, and some western states have 75mph. I think this is one of the areas the federal government needs to leave to the states to decide. I personally would love to see safe and reasonable come back, but I know thats just wishful thinking,
Same thinking should be allowed for guns too. Problem is the 2 sides arguing at state level cant reach a compromise and defer to the federal level.
Children are disproportionatly the victim if crimes too, i sapose we should give them guns too...I am honestly not a fan of gun control, it is our right as americans to own guns but there still need to be limitations on who can get them. If you have a proven history of certain types of mental illness such as certain personality disorders which make you unreasonably violent or certain mental handy caps which make you unable to judge consiquences of your actions (such as those illnessez which allow you to make the defence of insanity) you should not be given easy access, if any at all, to guns.
Do we need more gun controls? Perhaps. I personally bepieve if someone had been there with a concealed carry gun hen this shooting rampage would have ended much sooner. Violent or not it is an effective way to deal with a situation
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
How about we just set a requirement that if you have a clear background (no felonies at all, select misdemeanors okay, no history of mental illness such as paranoia or schizophrenia) and pass a basic gun safety and use course, you can purchase a firearm?
I'm referencing civilian CCW - which doesn't exist in that many states I know damn well. (Considering I've lived in four that do not have civilian CCW)
You gain a TON in weight and discomfort on the carry however - I'm a slight guy, and just holding a 40 briefly feels like a brick in my hands compared to a 9mm for example.
Sure, for trained police officers and military, I have no doubt carrying a 40 isn't a rarity - but for people that carry as a side interest rather than part of their work, I can't see too many people going for a full time 40 carry.
First friend is contracting on engineering work, he was Navy while enlisted however. Second friend I've not heard what his quality was as of yet, probably top notch at the time however, since he was part of a the bodyguard detail for a General.
I've not tried shooting since my neurlogic issues have cropped up, but that doesn't sound dissimilar from the part that effects my hands - maybe it's worth trying to do some targets again since you sound to be in a similar boat and doing reasonably well, but I'm certainly not going hunting for buck again either way.
He got sent to Fort Hood to train folks for 9 months after 3 months of complete downtime to heal and get back home from what I recall - maybe 18 months total between both - definitely wasn't 3 years though. We'd been out of touch and he got back in touch like day 1 of drill duty - and he's already back out there, and based on when he friended me on Steam which was shortly after we got back in touch - it's been about 2 years. (And he's Army)
Maybe Ft. Hood training is different or his circumstances created a special circumstance they allowed. No clue.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
There are only 3 States that do not have Civilian CCW. Some States are trying to pull the, "Will-Not" issue argument, but a call from a lawyer fixes them on that front. If their laws allow for it, they have to issue it.
My .40 weighs less than my 9. It's smaller too. I carry the 9 when I'm going shooting with the Nephew or someone, because the .40 kicks like a cannon.
There is a very large portion of the CCW community carrying a .40. There's a large portion that also carry 1911's. I'm a little dude, so I'm not going to find a 1911 that will fit in my pocket.
Generals do not leave secured facilities. The last time I dealt with a Personal Security detail they never left the wire, so their Body Armor wouldn't be of much use to them. The whole Army has had IBA's in the very least since about 2004. IBA's are level 4 with plates.
Give it a shot, lol pun. I wouldn't go deer hunting unless you're doing it from a hide with your condition, and even then I would be hesitant to move around with the weapon loaded. I haven't gone hunting since I was injured, so I can't speak about that. I just stick to what I know I can do.
Ft. Hood, sounds like he's doing AIT duty, which means he's training the MOS portion after the Drills have eaten them up. He's got the easy job. I wouldn't wish being a Drill Sergeant upon anyone, that job is nightmare.
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Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
What really put things in perspective for me was today on CNN, for a period of time, the Syria conflict was right next to the headline story of the Colorado shootings. Colorado was a heinous crime, and I in no way wish to diminish it, but it was really affecting to recognize such violence is a regular occurrence in Syria, and that the perpetrator is not a single madman but the government.
To me, anyone who looks at these two incidents of violence and actually promotes firearm banning has completely and totally missed the point. How we regulate firearms laws is a different story, but a ban is outright absurd to me.
To be fair, though, my understanding of semi-automatics at least is that the difference between one and an automatic is just a few screws.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
It's a bit more than a few screws these days. And a felony charge. And as was pointed out earlier (in the original thread)...if you aren't perfectly precise, you risk the gun blowing up on you or it locking in a firing position and won't stop firing until the clip is empty (whether or not you're holding the trigger).
Modifying a semiautomatic to be automatic is very dangerous, both to your physical well being and to your criminal background. Although to be fair, if you are modifying a semiautomatic to an automatic...you probably don't care about your criminal background.
Now, I don't know if this is true, so I definitely need someone to clarify on this. However, if it IS true, would anyone care to comment on that?
Also, this is interesting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/aurora-shooting-panic-pro_n_1703402.html
Thank you Mockingbird, for starting this thread, by the way. I'm glad someone took the initiative to do so.
Is not the point of the Second Amendment specifically to ensure a recourse against the military and the police?
It's my understanding that that is not Colorado law, but it a rule implemented by the company that runs the Century 16 theater.
I am pro-2nd Amendment, but I do support some common sense restrictions (such as background checks and preventing people with violent mental illnesses like paranoia and schizophrenia from owning guns). And owning a 100 round drum magazine for a semiautomatic rifle strikes me as unnecessary. That is not to say that I wouldn't want one myself - eventually I do plan on building my own AR-15 and certainly would not mind have a drum magazine. But I don't feel it is something a civilian truly needs - not that we "need" a lot of the things we have access to.
I tend to agree with the person you quoted though, our for fathers gave us the right to bare arms just for the sake of personal protection but so that the government could never oppress us like it was back in the day, not without the ability to fight back if the military were to be turned on its own people at least...and for that matter I really dont trust the police running around with guns, I realise they are required for personal protection but there have been to many cases of police officers oppressing common citizens rights and liberties along with other events such as one that just happend in florida recently. A couple of police officers came banging on someones door at 1:30 in the morning and didn't announce themselves then shot the home owner dead when he showed up to the door armed. He wasn't even pointing the gun AT them, he just had it and the cops shot him dead on the spot, no questions asked. AND they didn't even have the right house. The cop that did it wont even be charged with a crime nor will the police station apoligize and implement changes so this never happens again.
And just to be clear I am not encouraging violence against police officers OR the military, I just sleep a little more soundly at night knowing we would be a little bit better off then the Syrians in the event of something like that.
One day I will go infinate on a token combo then drop Scramble verse and watch as the trolling begins. That day will be a good day.
I hate when people infringe upon my God-given right to own a tank!
Anyone who believes the right to bear arms actually means we have recourse against the government is fooling themselves. Even if every single non-military citizen had a fully automatic firearm with full tactical body armor, any violent uprising would be CRUSHED by the military. The ONLY way an uprising/coup could ever be successful is if the US military fought against the government. There is zero percent chance of success otherwise. So get off your high horse about the (in)ability to protect us from tyranny.
This is true, but they don't seem to have lower murder rates. People who want to kill people do so.
Care to provide the overall murder/violent crime rate for us? Perhaps you can refute my statement.
Just like how the highly trained and better equipped British Army crushed that pesky rebellion of untrained farmers in the colonies back in the 1770s...
Wait...
The untrained farmers beat the better trained and equipped British Army.
Pesky history getting in the way of the left wing fantasy world...guess they got to rewrite the American Revolution next to have defectors from the British Army helping them win.
Pesky......forget it, its not even worth mocking, if you cant see how ridiculous a statement it is to compare them then you are a lost cause.
At least when people argue its for personal protection from criminals its a semi legitimate point. The idea that if the government HAD the backing of the army, that you and your pea shooters could make a difference is laughable. Wake up.
Edit. Actually no, lets play this out. A US Tank is moving down the street towards your house intent on blowing it up with your family inside. Tell me what legal guns you have at your disposal that you use to stop it. Guns only since this only pertains to gun control. Ill be interested to hear this.