I can't really seem to figure out wether anyone is scum or town.
That being said I do think that sixed and annorax have made posts that seem scummy to me. I am currently going to Vote Annorax I feel like I will get called out for bandwagoning or barning again... But at this point it seems like anything I say is under suspicion so I suppose I will do it anyway.
@TK's question, why did I paraphase over quoting? I was lazy, not sure why your that concerned over it.
Got nothing right now (pretty much what Incognito and Wheat have been saying) so I guess I'll throw up my potential scum (both for similar reasons)
Annorax -I flat don't like his posts, they come off as going for the easiest target (IE me), and don't really elaborate much past that, Incognito's point of him using FoS instead of actually voting sticks out as well. He also needs to post more (actually my primary reason for voting him)
Trabent - I'm hesitant to vote him, the fact he's new (and the fact I made very similar posts the first time I played) is pretty much it.
If I didn't mention you, it's not cause I think your town, it's cause I don't have you pegged as scum yet, Incognito, wheat and swishh come off more as town, although swishh comes off as a bit quick on the draw, not sure if that's good (applies pressure) or bad (wanting to get a quick lynch/wagon going), have no problems with incognito, blunt and to the point, the fact I have no problem with it is disconcerting to me though (why am I so willing to trust him/her/it/thing/cthulumonster), wheat seems fine, although I want to hear more about his vote on trabent (I think I know why, but hearing it from the horse's mouth would help).
The rest I'm kinda neutral towards, I have no real reason to think scum or town.
@TK's question, why did I paraphase over quoting? I was lazy, not sure why your that concerned over it.
Got nothing right now (pretty much what Incognito and Wheat have been saying) so I guess I'll throw up my potential scum (both for similar reasons)
Annorax -I flat don't like his posts, they come off as going for the easiest target (IE me), and don't really elaborate much past that, Incognito's point of him using FoS instead of actually voting sticks out as well. He also needs to post more (actually my primary reason for voting him)
Trabent - I'm hesitant to vote him, the fact he's new (and the fact I made very similar posts the first time I played) is pretty much it.
If I didn't mention you, it's not cause I think your town, it's cause I don't have you pegged as scum yet, Incognito, wheat and swishh come off more as town, although swishh comes off as a bit quick on the draw, not sure if that's good (applies pressure) or bad (wanting to get a quick lynch/wagon going), have no problems with incognito, blunt and to the point, the fact I have no problem with it is disconcerting to me though (why am I so willing to trust him/her/it/thing/cthulumonster), wheat seems fine, although I want to hear more about his vote on trabent (I think I know why, but hearing it from the horse's mouth would help).
The rest I'm kinda neutral towards, I have no real reason to think scum or town.
It's been literally years since I've played & I probably shouldn't have signed up, since between the day job & the staff job, I don't have all the time I'd like for this.
Quite simply, I wanted to gather information & figure out where the scum is without starting or reviving a wagon that'd lead to a mislynch. Why lead the scum to a freebie when we can actually scumhunt? I may not be the best at scumhunting, since I can count on one hand the number of games that I've actually survived day one, but at least I'm trying.
& WG was right... I've modded more games than I've played.
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Trabant is iffy, but at that point Annorax's teammates are almost certain to bus
Annorax's constant fearmongering of mislynches sounds like he knows what wagons will be mislynches - I'd be okay with that lynch
Regarding my Swishh vote, it was partially that he was trying far too hard to seem town, rather than simply scumhunting and being town. So I throw an accusation and vote at him to see how he responds, and how other people respond to it
I'd call it inconclusive for now, but I like having reactions to look back on after a few flips are generated
Swishh spearheading the Annorax lynch makes me feel a bit better about him, at least
I'm interested in who avoided both of the wagons actually
Newb scum in particular tend to be afraid to use their vote
Magenta?
Magenta hasn't placed a non-rvs vote yet this game, and hasn't done anything other than wave at posts and call them "bad"
She's scum
MTG, Wheat, Incognito, LMD are all pretty solidly town
I'm cool with lynching Annorax or Magenta
Annorax is at L-2, and I'm fine with having him claim. My vote is there in spirit
Going to Vote: Magenta for now though, since don't really see a use for keeping it on Swishh
TK and Grimnar make me a little uneasy at the front of the LMD wagon - although they could be RVS votes, I need to go back and look at how that unfolded again. Am just looking at the wagons Wheat posted
Trabant is iffy, but at that point Annorax's teammates are almost certain to bus
Annorax's constant fearmongering of mislynches sounds like he knows what wagons will be mislynches - I'd be okay with that lynch
Regarding my Swishh vote, it was partially that he was trying far too hard to seem town, rather than simply scumhunting and being town. So I throw an accusation and vote at him to see how he responds, and how other people respond to it
I'd call it inconclusive for now, but I like having reactions to look back on after a few flips are generated
Swishh spearheading the Annorax lynch makes me feel a bit better about him, at least
I'm interested in who avoided both of the wagons actually
Newb scum in particular tend to be afraid to use their vote
Magenta?
Magenta hasn't placed a non-rvs vote yet this game, and hasn't done anything other than wave at posts and call them "bad"
She's scum
MTG, Wheat, Incognito, LMD are all pretty solidly town
I'm cool with lynching Annorax or Magenta
Annorax is at L-2, and I'm fine with having him claim. My vote is there in spirit
Going to Vote: Magenta for now though, since don't really see a use for keeping it on Swishh
TK and Grimnar make me a little uneasy at the front of the LMD wagon - although they could be RVS votes, I need to go back and look at how that unfolded again. Am just looking at the wagons Wheat posted
So we have a mudsling and voting for someone other than the current wagon to avoid looking like bussing? Could you fence sit more?
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Quite simply, I wanted to gather information & figure out where the scum is without starting or reviving a wagon that'd lead to a mislynch. Why lead the scum to a freebie when we can actually scumhunt?
Quite simply, I wanted to gather information & figure out where the scum is without starting or reviving a wagon that'd lead to a mislynch. Why lead the scum to a freebie when we can actually scumhunt?
so why are you voting me over trabent?
You both look scummy as hell, but you're scummier to me.
I'm Jafar. Vanilla town.
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@TK's question, why did I paraphase over quoting? I was lazy, not sure why your that concerned over it.
It's very important, because by paraphrasing rather than quoting, you took out context and could easily twist it to make it look bad. It would be the perfect way as mafia to get a wagon started on me by taking something I "said" and pointing out the problems with it. Which is exactly what you did You tried to take my vote, which was pressure on you, and turn it around into some kind of fence-sit.
Now, you say you were lazy. You're asking me to accept that you are SO lazy, that you will retype what I said, adding some spin to it, rather than hit the [quote] or the [+] button to quote me, and add your thoughts? RETYPING IS LESS WORK THAN HITTING A BUTTON?
It was completely a mafia play.
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@sixed
Who's gimmick are you?
Also, it's a bit funny for someone that haven't been helpful to complain about me not voting. At least I'm doing some reasonable points here, and not "voting for reactions"
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
@sixed
Who's gimmick are you?
Also, it's a bit funny for someone that haven't been helpful to complain about me not voting. At least I'm doing some reasonable points here, and not "voting for reactions"
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
In a basic, you immediately jump off on a PR, the rest have equal chances of being a fakeclaim.
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
Seeing as that we are all Disney "villains," I'm not sure if there will be much to go on just from name alone. Claiming vanilla won't help anyone but the scum team (process of elimination helps them find town PRs). In my limited experience with mafia online (unlike IRL), the only time I've seen claims do anything productive was when someone can counterclaim a scum's falseclaim or a town PR outs themself (only at the appropriate time though, e.g. town tracker found member(s) of scumteam). If anyone with more experience cares to expand or correct my statement please feel free.
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If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
@sixed
Who's gimmick are you?
Also, it's a bit funny for someone that haven't been helpful to complain about me not voting. At least I'm doing some reasonable points here, and not "voting for reactions"
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
In a basic, you immediately jump off on a PR, the rest have equal chances of being a fakeclaim.
Lol, you keep posting just ahead of me while I'm working on my posts, spooky.
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If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
First, I'm not going to vote someone that will put them at L-1. That brings self-hammers and quick lynches. Second, I'm still using my vote. I'm not sitting here accusing without voting.
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EBWODP: I guess I should answer that lame question of "Is there a reason you think he's town?"
I never said he was, so don't put things in my mouth. I haven't commented at all on Annorax. That weird post of his where he just spouted about restarting wagons and votes Lord_McD set off all kinds of warning bells. So there's your answer.
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TK-421, the following statements are not compatible.
1. Annorax is at L-2
2. Annorax is town.
3. Only one scum at most is voting Annorax.
4. We're looking at a 3+ person scum squad.
Grimnar has been forcibly replaced out due to not responding to a prod within 48 hours. I am currently looking for a replacement and will post when such replacement has been made.
If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
It feels like there is a lot of lurking going on this game. There's also a heavy usage of the noob card.
I feel the same about lurking. But the noob, I think it is inevitable, since it is an basic... idk
@MTG / WG
Yeah, that's sort of my feeling. So how do we proceed in games like this?
I think that claiming is sort of useless unless you are a PR, or the mafia will be constantly helped...
It feels like there is a lot of lurking going on this game. There's also a heavy usage of the noob card.
I feel the same about lurking. But the noob, I think it is inevitable, since it is an basic... idk
@MTG / WG
Yeah, that's sort of my feeling. So how do we proceed in games like this?
I think that claiming is sort of useless unless you are a PR, or the mafia will be constantly helped...
but just like the amount of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll
the world may never know.
Seems like a joke. I find it hard to believe anyone could be so.. I guess there's no fitting word other than stupid, is there? So stupid that they'd intentionally allude to their status as scum. It's worth noting that in this hypothetical scenario, it would have to be intentional. To read it as a slip is... comical.
How is calling for an answer to a very odd post mudslinging?
The post you 'called for an answer for' wasn't odd at all. While he did jump in front of a question intended for someone else, nothing else about it was suspect at all. He provided information that was solid, nothing more.
On top of that, what you did wasn't really calling for an answer. It reads much more like you're trying to cast suspicion on him.
unvote Honestly, this being my first game, I wasn't aware that first day lynching was taboo... Also my reasoning was a joke, but I really did think that he was acting strange but now I kind of think that wheat grinder is the try to hard type.
Blatant noob card. I really don't like it being used, so this doesn't sit well with me.
@sixed
Who's gimmick are you?
Also, it's a bit funny for someone that haven't been helpful to complain about me not voting. At least I'm doing some reasonable points here, and not "voting for reactions"
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
As for the bolded part, voting for reactions is a valid play. It can be annoying to deal with, but that's not important.
Why did you feel the need to add the underlined part? Whether or not you believe it is immaterial. Feels like covering your rear end. Not necessarily scummy for someone that I assume is new, but definitely not what you should be concerned with. I'll be watching.
Alright. These are things I felt like pointing out. My vote would go to Annorax if he wasn't already so close to a lynch, so in light of that, I'm holding my vote. No reason to end the day, there's plenty we still need to discuss.
My next best scum suspect would be Trabant. Bad votes supported by noob claims don't fly.
If there's anything in particular that anyone wants my opinion on, feel free to ask.
Seems like a joke. I find it hard to believe anyone could be so.. I guess there's no fitting word other than stupid, is there? So stupid that they'd intentionally allude to their status as scum. It's worth noting that in this hypothetical scenario, it would have to be intentional. To read it as a slip is... comical.
My vote is still on LMD and this is why. Its not a slip, hes just yelling "I'm town" way too loud for my liking. Combined with a relative lack of posting is avoiding real confrontation.
Alright. These are things I felt like pointing out. My vote would go to Annorax if he wasn't already so close to a lynch, so in light of that, I'm holding my vote. No reason to end the day, there's plenty we still need to discuss.
So no analyisis of the player who would be your vote?
I really see Trabant777 just as new(kinda bad) town, but maybe I am just naive.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Annorax's post was awful, plain and simple. I don't have an awesome case on him, but he's the best bet I can see right now. I had nothing new to add to the Annorax wagon, and I didn't feel that reiterating points others made would be fruitful.
In regards to Trabant, there's a difference between being green, and using that fact as a means to weasel out of attention for bad plays.
I don't feel super good about Annorax being scum anymore. Both wagons were so fast. Whereas, Trabant was jumping on right when the wagons were turning to claim range. Trabant is new (correct me if you have off-site experience and I missed it, Trabant), so I doubt he'd bus. Therefore it definitely does not make sense that both Annorax and Trabant are scum together.
EBWODP: I guess I should answer that lame question of "Is there a reason you think he's town?"
I never said he was, so don't put things in my mouth. I haven't commented at all on Annorax. That weird post of his where he just spouted about restarting wagons and votes Lord_McD set off all kinds of warning bells. So there's your answer.
Is it a crime to want the discussion to be productive & long enough to get everything that needs to be said out in the open?
Bottom line, there's quite a few new players in this game, enough that there was a possibility of an entirely new scumteam. I didn't want a 100% newb scumteam to all dogpile on a wagon and end the day prematurely.
The fact that I'm still alive proves that false, but that was my thought process at the time. Knowing what I do now, I've got nothing.
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This is a good point. I'm getting severe noob-vibes from almost everyone, and these bandwagons are growing really fast. I was like literally sheeped. I'm going to be kind of busy this weekend, so hopefully I can review the game tomorrow and make sense of things.
I don't feel super good about Annorax being scum anymore. Both wagons were so fast. Whereas, Trabant was jumping on right when the wagons were turning to claim range. Trabant is new (correct me if you have off-site experience and I missed it, Trabant), so I doubt he'd bus. Therefore it definitely does not make sense that both Annorax and Trabant are scum together.
@sixed
Who's gimmick are you?
Also, it's a bit funny for someone that haven't been helpful to complain about me not voting. At least I'm doing some reasonable points here, and not "voting for reactions"
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
As for the bolded part, voting for reactions is a valid play. It can be annoying to deal with, but that's not important.
Why did you feel the need to add the underlined part? Whether or not you believe it is immaterial. Feels like covering your rear end. Not necessarily scummy for someone that I assume is new, but definitely not what you should be concerned with. I'll be watching.
It is a valid play, but it is a easy way out as well. It is our duty to try to find the reasoning behind them. Don't you agree?
As for the underlined, on the other game I'm playing (my 1st one) I've seen scum using open statements more freely than I'd like; also I've seen other players explaining things before someone asked. Because of that I've done so to not open space to opportunist scum.
TK-421, the following statements are not compatible.
1. Annorax is at L-2
2. Annorax is town.
3. Only one scum at most is voting Annorax.
4. We're looking at a 3+ person scum squad.
Which of the above do you think is not the case?
#4 is probably not true. It'd be weird for a basic to have more than 3. It gets really hard to balance more in a basic. I had 4 Town PRs in my Basic, but it still didn't require another mafia member. I think Trabant was mafia, and you know my feelings on Lord_McD, so #3 is obvious. #1 is not true. He's at L-4 But it was true when asked (I think, not gonna check). #2, No idea. Could be. Likely is. I doubt the two noob mafia would bus their own member. I'd think Annorax is mafia, but there's environmental evidence against it for now.
Is it a crime to want the discussion to be productive & long enough to get everything that needs to be said out in the open?
Bottom line, there's quite a few new players in this game, enough that there was a possibility of an entirely new scumteam. I didn't want a 100% newb scumteam to all dogpile on a wagon and end the day prematurely.
The fact that I'm still alive proves that false, but that was my thought process at the time. Knowing what I do now, I've got nothing.
No, it's not a crime. There was discussion about an unvote, and you explain why you posted. It's just weird. Like, it wasn't prompted at all. It just surprises me when people just give up info, because I've learned the hard way.
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Hey TK, got any games on this site besides that one we were in together?
My sig has a link to a blog of my games! But the tl;dr of it is 3 mod games, and 2 other non-mod games, plus a mod game I ran.
Give me 30 minutes (I totally started this post half an hour ago and got roped into meal planning), and I'll point out a hole in something I said.
I have 3 mod games, plus a mod game I ran. When I said 2 others, I ended up counting this very game. Which is not very useful.
So for games that are viewable, beyond Robots and this one, there's one other.
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It is a valid play, but it is a easy way out as well. It is our duty to try to find the reasoning behind them. Don't you agree?
As for the underlined, on the other game I'm playing (my 1st one) I've seen scum using open statements more freely than I'd like; also I've seen other players explaining things before someone asked. Because of that I've done so to not open space to opportunist scum.
Alright then, next question. Regarding your post, it makes it sound like you did believe Annorax's claim. At the time, what reason would you have had to believe it? It's a vanilla claim from someone who hadn't done much but draw attention to himself.
We've had new ideas come in that would suggest his innocence, but not at the time. It makes no sense to have believed him. So why?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
How is calling for an answer to a very odd post mudslinging?
The post you 'called for an answer for' wasn't odd at all. While he did jump in front of a question intended for someone else, nothing else about it was suspect at all. He provided information that was solid, nothing more.
On top of that, what you did wasn't really calling for an answer. It reads much more like you're trying to cast suspicion on him.
Scummy.
The original post I called out most definitely reeked of a potential scumslip. Giving hard numbers of scumteam when it is not public knowledge could definitely be a first time scum error. Calling him out, getting explanation, seeing how he responds...that was the right move. Ignoring it seems apathetic.
So yes, asking questions about suspicious posts still doesn't seem wrong. Ignoring bad posts does seem wrong. Plus, how is what you just wrote any different? Is not calling something "scummy" not the exact definition of casting suspicion? So you just did the same thing you are calling me out for, right? Can I call that scummy or do we then cascade into an infinite downward spiral...
You're probably right. My post should have just been, "that post was bad, or looked weird." But that doesn't ask a question, and has a better chance of getting ignored doesn't it? Do you have a problem with people pointing out bad posts and asking for more answers?
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It should be common knowledge. Ask any of the experienced players here, 12 person basic gets 3 scum. I actually caught a lot of suspicion in my last game pretending not to know that. If anyone can tell me of a game that went otherwise, I'd be happy to concede my point, but even then, I imagine such a game would definitely be rare.
Wheat has already pointed out that the question you asked was not a legitimate one. What info did you really hope to gain from it? I'm asking seriously. What did you expect?
You cast suspicion on him without merit. Twisted a post of information to be something it wasn't. I'm calling you out on it. If you think you can call that scummy, I'd like to see the justification.
I have no problem with calling out bad posts; I'm doing it now. I still fail to see how you could have thought that providing information was bad. If you wanted to call out his post, you should have called out the fact that he answered a question that wasn't meant for him. That's the only thing he did that was questionable.
It should be common knowledge. Ask any of the experienced players here, 12 person basic gets 3 scum. I actually caught a lot of suspicion in my last game pretending not to know that. If anyone can tell me of a game that went otherwise, I'd be happy to concede my point, but even then, I imagine such a game would definitely be rare.
None of the FAQs or info areas had 12-3 as hardset numbers. This is my first full game...if that info is not listed, no, it is not fair to assume people know that. (After this post, I won't use noob card again.) How could you possibly think a new player would know that info?
Wheat has already pointed out that the question you asked was not a legitimate one. What info did you really hope to gain from it? I'm asking seriously. What did you expect?
We already went through this. WG has asked this already. In case you didn't read our game yet. My first answer still stands.
Legitimate question also...my 2nd online game so I wasn't sure if his info was true or just a nice smooth over. Take it how you will, but the question stands...was his info about numbers good?
I have no problem with calling out bad posts; I'm doing it now. I still fail to see how you could have thought that providing information was bad. If you wanted to call out his post, you should have called out the fact that he answered a question that wasn't meant for him. That's the only thing he did that was questionable.
"If you wanted to call out his post, you should have called out the fact that he answered a question that wasn't meant for him." So,Covering for a buddy... You're right. No way that could be calling him out for answering someone else's question.
I still fail to see how you could have thought that providing information was bad.
It's not. But, this is a basic. I still fail to see how you think all players should have knowledge already that is not listed or given out, but rather derived from playing multiple games on this site. It was a legitimate question. I guess I don't know all the things you assume all the other seasoned veterans in this basic should know. If you can't see how I saw it as a potential scumslip, you are assuming too much about the knowledge pool of this game's players.
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If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
Wheat has already pointed out that the question you asked was not a legitimate one. What info did you really hope to gain from it? I'm asking seriously. What did you expect?
Sorry, there was a question there I didn't answer. What did I expect to gain: 1) whether or not it was true info/reliable, 2)whether or not the information was or should be a common assumption or a slip of privileged info. The answer to either of those could point to potential slip, which would have been the third bit gained from it. Neither answer did. I dropped it after that. Again, in a basic, it is unsafe to assume players already know that info. I saw at least 3 others in posting that weren't positive about numbers.
If anyone can tell me of a game that went otherwise, I'd be happy to concede my point, but even then, I imagine such a game would definitely be rare.
wait, rare does not mean impossible...does it? Even your wording here indicates that you were not 100% on the matter.
Anyway, its a null point now. I think you're just being hard headed if you can't see legitimacy in the question (not saying you have to agree with it, not already knew it, or even like it). It would not be a legitimate question coming from a seasoned veteran, but I guess half of another game doesn't make me that. But if you can't get past that, then agree to disagree. I'm not going to waste anymore posts on this matter.
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If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
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Explain the bolded please.
Got nothing right now (pretty much what Incognito and Wheat have been saying) so I guess I'll throw up my potential scum (both for similar reasons)
Annorax -I flat don't like his posts, they come off as going for the easiest target (IE me), and don't really elaborate much past that, Incognito's point of him using FoS instead of actually voting sticks out as well. He also needs to post more (actually my primary reason for voting him)
Trabent - I'm hesitant to vote him, the fact he's new (and the fact I made very similar posts the first time I played) is pretty much it.
If I didn't mention you, it's not cause I think your town, it's cause I don't have you pegged as scum yet, Incognito, wheat and swishh come off more as town, although swishh comes off as a bit quick on the draw, not sure if that's good (applies pressure) or bad (wanting to get a quick lynch/wagon going), have no problems with incognito, blunt and to the point, the fact I have no problem with it is disconcerting to me though (why am I so willing to trust him/her/it/thing/cthulumonster), wheat seems fine, although I want to hear more about his vote on trabent (I think I know why, but hearing it from the horse's mouth would help).
The rest I'm kinda neutral towards, I have no real reason to think scum or town.
It's been literally years since I've played & I probably shouldn't have signed up, since between the day job & the staff job, I don't have all the time I'd like for this.
Quite simply, I wanted to gather information & figure out where the scum is without starting or reviving a wagon that'd lead to a mislynch. Why lead the scum to a freebie when we can actually scumhunt? I may not be the best at scumhunting, since I can count on one hand the number of games that I've actually survived day one, but at least I'm trying.
& WG was right... I've modded more games than I've played.
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Middle 3 on Annorax wagon are solidly town
Trabant is iffy, but at that point Annorax's teammates are almost certain to bus
Annorax's constant fearmongering of mislynches sounds like he knows what wagons will be mislynches - I'd be okay with that lynch
Regarding my Swishh vote, it was partially that he was trying far too hard to seem town, rather than simply scumhunting and being town. So I throw an accusation and vote at him to see how he responds, and how other people respond to it
I'd call it inconclusive for now, but I like having reactions to look back on after a few flips are generated
Swishh spearheading the Annorax lynch makes me feel a bit better about him, at least
I'm interested in who avoided both of the wagons actually
Newb scum in particular tend to be afraid to use their vote
Magenta?
Magenta hasn't placed a non-rvs vote yet this game, and hasn't done anything other than wave at posts and call them "bad"
She's scum
MTG, Wheat, Incognito, LMD are all pretty solidly town
I'm cool with lynching Annorax or Magenta
Annorax is at L-2, and I'm fine with having him claim. My vote is there in spirit
Going to Vote: Magenta for now though, since don't really see a use for keeping it on Swishh
TK and Grimnar make me a little uneasy at the front of the LMD wagon - although they could be RVS votes, I need to go back and look at how that unfolded again. Am just looking at the wagons Wheat posted
So we have a mudsling and voting for someone other than the current wagon to avoid looking like bussing? Could you fence sit more?
so why are you voting me over trabent?
You both look scummy as hell, but you're scummier to me.
I'm Jafar. Vanilla town.
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But that doesn't answer the question. Was there a reason to be conservative, or were you just waiting for the wagon to have momentum?
It's very important, because by paraphrasing rather than quoting, you took out context and could easily twist it to make it look bad. It would be the perfect way as mafia to get a wagon started on me by taking something I "said" and pointing out the problems with it. Which is exactly what you did You tried to take my vote, which was pressure on you, and turn it around into some kind of fence-sit.
Now, you say you were lazy. You're asking me to accept that you are SO lazy, that you will retype what I said, adding some spin to it, rather than hit the [quote] or the [+] button to quote me, and add your thoughts? RETYPING IS LESS WORK THAN HITTING A BUTTON?
It was completely a mafia play.
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Who's gimmick are you?
Also, it's a bit funny for someone that haven't been helpful to complain about me not voting. At least I'm doing some reasonable points here, and not "voting for reactions"
@all
So Annorax is claiming Jaffar, vanilla.
Claims in this game seem pretty easy to fake. At wich point it is beliveable?
(To clarify, I'm not saying I don't believe his, just asking)
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I started the wagon on Annorax after his/her second extremely bad post. What are you trying to get at here?
This.
Just trying to understand if there was a reason that at the time, you weren't willing to walk the talk.
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In a basic, you immediately jump off on a PR, the rest have equal chances of being a fakeclaim.
Seeing as that we are all Disney "villains," I'm not sure if there will be much to go on just from name alone. Claiming vanilla won't help anyone but the scum team (process of elimination helps them find town PRs). In my limited experience with mafia online (unlike IRL), the only time I've seen claims do anything productive was when someone can counterclaim a scum's falseclaim or a town PR outs themself (only at the appropriate time though, e.g. town tracker found member(s) of scumteam). If anyone with more experience cares to expand or correct my statement please feel free.
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Lol, you keep posting just ahead of me while I'm working on my posts, spooky.
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Claim does nothing for me, by the way.
Not a fan of the "my vote is there in spirit". Currently Sixed's vote does nothing right now.
Read below + what I say afterward.
First, I'm not going to vote someone that will put them at L-1. That brings self-hammers and quick lynches. Second, I'm still using my vote. I'm not sitting here accusing without voting.
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I never said he was, so don't put things in my mouth. I haven't commented at all on Annorax. That weird post of his where he just spouted about restarting wagons and votes Lord_McD set off all kinds of warning bells. So there's your answer.
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1. Annorax is at L-2
2. Annorax is town.
3. Only one scum at most is voting Annorax.
4. We're looking at a 3+ person scum squad.
Which of the above do you think is not the case?
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Welcome to the game.
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I feel the same about lurking. But the noob, I think it is inevitable, since it is an basic... idk
@MTG / WG
Yeah, that's sort of my feeling. So how do we proceed in games like this?
I think that claiming is sort of useless unless you are a PR, or the mafia will be constantly helped...
Welcome Polski!
This is another reason why Annorax is scum.
Seems like a joke. I find it hard to believe anyone could be so.. I guess there's no fitting word other than stupid, is there? So stupid that they'd intentionally allude to their status as scum. It's worth noting that in this hypothetical scenario, it would have to be intentional. To read it as a slip is... comical.
Awful bad terrible crap vote.
The post you 'called for an answer for' wasn't odd at all. While he did jump in front of a question intended for someone else, nothing else about it was suspect at all. He provided information that was solid, nothing more.
On top of that, what you did wasn't really calling for an answer. It reads much more like you're trying to cast suspicion on him.
Scummy.
Blatant noob card. I really don't like it being used, so this doesn't sit well with me.
As for the bolded part, voting for reactions is a valid play. It can be annoying to deal with, but that's not important.
Why did you feel the need to add the underlined part? Whether or not you believe it is immaterial. Feels like covering your rear end. Not necessarily scummy for someone that I assume is new, but definitely not what you should be concerned with. I'll be watching.
Alright. These are things I felt like pointing out. My vote would go to Annorax if he wasn't already so close to a lynch, so in light of that, I'm holding my vote. No reason to end the day, there's plenty we still need to discuss.
My next best scum suspect would be Trabant. Bad votes supported by noob claims don't fly.
If there's anything in particular that anyone wants my opinion on, feel free to ask.
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So no analyisis of the player who would be your vote?
I really see Trabant777 just as new(kinda bad) town, but maybe I am just naive.
In regards to Trabant, there's a difference between being green, and using that fact as a means to weasel out of attention for bad plays.
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I don't feel super good about Annorax being scum anymore. Both wagons were so fast. Whereas, Trabant was jumping on right when the wagons were turning to claim range. Trabant is new (correct me if you have off-site experience and I missed it, Trabant), so I doubt he'd bus. Therefore it definitely does not make sense that both Annorax and Trabant are scum together.
Is it a crime to want the discussion to be productive & long enough to get everything that needs to be said out in the open?
Bottom line, there's quite a few new players in this game, enough that there was a possibility of an entirely new scumteam. I didn't want a 100% newb scumteam to all dogpile on a wagon and end the day prematurely.
The fact that I'm still alive proves that false, but that was my thought process at the time. Knowing what I do now, I've got nothing.
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This is a good point. I'm getting severe noob-vibes from almost everyone, and these bandwagons are growing really fast. I was like literally sheeped. I'm going to be kind of busy this weekend, so hopefully I can review the game tomorrow and make sense of things.
This is sound reasoning.
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should be able to read though.
It is a valid play, but it is a easy way out as well. It is our duty to try to find the reasoning behind them. Don't you agree?
As for the underlined, on the other game I'm playing (my 1st one) I've seen scum using open statements more freely than I'd like; also I've seen other players explaining things before someone asked. Because of that I've done so to not open space to opportunist scum.
Lord_McDonalds (3): TK-421, MRHBlue, Annorax
Magenta (1): Sixed
Annorax (3): Lord_McDonalds, Incognito, Trabant777
Trabant777 (1): Wheat_Grinder,
Not Voting: Magenta, MTG~DDS, Polski, swishh,
With 12 Alive, it's 7 to lynch.
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#4 is probably not true. It'd be weird for a basic to have more than 3. It gets really hard to balance more in a basic. I had 4 Town PRs in my Basic, but it still didn't require another mafia member. I think Trabant was mafia, and you know my feelings on Lord_McD, so #3 is obvious. #1 is not true. He's at L-4 But it was true when asked (I think, not gonna check). #2, No idea. Could be. Likely is. I doubt the two noob mafia would bus their own member. I'd think Annorax is mafia, but there's environmental evidence against it for now.
My sig has a link to a blog of my games! But the tl;dr of it is 3 mod games, and 2 other non-mod games, plus a mod game I ran.
No, it's not a crime. There was discussion about an unvote, and you explain why you posted. It's just weird. Like, it wasn't prompted at all. It just surprises me when people just give up info, because I've learned the hard way.
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Give me 30 minutes (I totally started this post half an hour ago and got roped into meal planning), and I'll point out a hole in something I said.
I have 3 mod games, plus a mod game I ran. When I said 2 others, I ended up counting this very game. Which is not very useful.
So for games that are viewable, beyond Robots and this one, there's one other.
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Alright then, next question. Regarding your post, it makes it sound like you did believe Annorax's claim. At the time, what reason would you have had to believe it? It's a vanilla claim from someone who hadn't done much but draw attention to himself.
We've had new ideas come in that would suggest his innocence, but not at the time. It makes no sense to have believed him. So why?
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The original post I called out most definitely reeked of a potential scumslip. Giving hard numbers of scumteam when it is not public knowledge could definitely be a first time scum error. Calling him out, getting explanation, seeing how he responds...that was the right move. Ignoring it seems apathetic.
So yes, asking questions about suspicious posts still doesn't seem wrong. Ignoring bad posts does seem wrong. Plus, how is what you just wrote any different? Is not calling something "scummy" not the exact definition of casting suspicion? So you just did the same thing you are calling me out for, right? Can I call that scummy or do we then cascade into an infinite downward spiral...
You're probably right. My post should have just been, "that post was bad, or looked weird." But that doesn't ask a question, and has a better chance of getting ignored doesn't it? Do you have a problem with people pointing out bad posts and asking for more answers?
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Wheat has already pointed out that the question you asked was not a legitimate one. What info did you really hope to gain from it? I'm asking seriously. What did you expect?
You cast suspicion on him without merit. Twisted a post of information to be something it wasn't. I'm calling you out on it. If you think you can call that scummy, I'd like to see the justification.
I have no problem with calling out bad posts; I'm doing it now. I still fail to see how you could have thought that providing information was bad. If you wanted to call out his post, you should have called out the fact that he answered a question that wasn't meant for him. That's the only thing he did that was questionable.
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None of the FAQs or info areas had 12-3 as hardset numbers. This is my first full game...if that info is not listed, no, it is not fair to assume people know that. (After this post, I won't use noob card again.) How could you possibly think a new player would know that info?
We already went through this. WG has asked this already. In case you didn't read our game yet. My first answer still stands.
If you worry about the discrepancy, I replaced into my first game halfway through (I think it was already 50+ pages in.). http://http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=466270
"If you wanted to call out his post, you should have called out the fact that he answered a question that wasn't meant for him." So,Covering for a buddy... You're right. No way that could be calling him out for answering someone else's question.
It's not. But, this is a basic. I still fail to see how you think all players should have knowledge already that is not listed or given out, but rather derived from playing multiple games on this site. It was a legitimate question. I guess I don't know all the things you assume all the other seasoned veterans in this basic should know. If you can't see how I saw it as a potential scumslip, you are assuming too much about the knowledge pool of this game's players.
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Sorry, there was a question there I didn't answer. What did I expect to gain: 1) whether or not it was true info/reliable, 2)whether or not the information was or should be a common assumption or a slip of privileged info. The answer to either of those could point to potential slip, which would have been the third bit gained from it. Neither answer did. I dropped it after that. Again, in a basic, it is unsafe to assume players already know that info. I saw at least 3 others in posting that weren't positive about numbers.
wait, rare does not mean impossible...does it? Even your wording here indicates that you were not 100% on the matter.
Anyway, its a null point now. I think you're just being hard headed if you can't see legitimacy in the question (not saying you have to agree with it, not already knew it, or even like it). It would not be a legitimate question coming from a seasoned veteran, but I guess half of another game doesn't make me that. But if you can't get past that, then agree to disagree. I'm not going to waste anymore posts on this matter.
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