Why is that? And does that mean you think he shouldn't be lynched now?
I have many memories of AE getting dogpiled and lynched early on. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Kithkin and Fahrenheit 451, though I might be forgetting a few. Although that in itself is not a good reason not to lynch him, as he was scum in both of the above games, I definitely don't think the AE case holds any water right now. I was just pointing out part of why I think ced's vote is opportunistic.
=========================
Brinatoo isn't even trying to scum hunt anymore. Such aggressive apathy.
No. Not trying to make you look scummy. Trying to make you take a step back and reevaluate.
But the point is you're implying I'm deliberately trying to twist what you say to look scummy. I can understand a townie suspecting a scum is trying to put one on him, but it's the way you phrased that line that makes me feel like you're trying to slap mud on my case.
I can see your point of being a hypocrite. My point is he made a point about applying pressure but ignored his scum suspect and called others out for lack of content. I came in and called him on it and have since posted relative content, not fluff as he has done. Based on that I don't agree with your take on being a hypocrite.
Well, since most of the content I see after that point is directed toward the Brinatoo case, I'd say you two are probably about even on the positive contributions.
But again, you're still not addressing the hypocritical stance you took at that moment, criticizing him for lack of content when that was your first substantive post.
Talking about me in regards to Brinatoo. So we're tied. Not a deflection.
That's the very definition of a deflection - making a conversation about X also/instead about Y. Stop making this about him; like I said, I don't care.
OK wait. Did I come in and say he's scum because my gut tells me? Did I say early pressure is good and vote? Then post fluff and ignore my suspect? No. I came in called him on trying to cruise through the day.(Getting on a wagon just to get on it. Not scumhunting/posting fluff). Continued to talk about him and my actions.
Right, but a) you're distorting the value of what he posted, and b) again, how does this not describe YOU? You had no content before relentlessly barning Niv's vote and jumping on the nascent wagon! Stealing Niv's argument with essentially no additions doesn't make you a "scumhunter"!
How am I sifting blame? I'm calling him scum and giving reasons. Your trying to pin those same reasons onto me which doesn't add up. I'm giving you straight answers. You just don't like them so your spining them.
No you're not giving me straight answers. Every answer above is "oh, but see how Brinatoo did X". We're talking about you.
Do me a favor. In your next response to my questions, please refrain from using Brinatoo's name or pronouns for said. Can you do that for me, please?
The fact that I can't get a straight answer from AE, though, is starting to make me doubt my conclusions. Nobody deflects this hard unless they really believe they're in the right and the target of the deflection is guilty. Enghh... got more rereading to do.
The fact that I can't get a straight answer from AE, though, is starting to make me doubt my conclusions. Nobody deflects this hard unless they really believe they're in the right and the target of the deflection is guilty. Enghh... got more rereading to do.
Hey, LC, in your opinion, why are scum more likely to mudsling and to be hypocritical than town?
Hey, LC, in your opinion, why are scum more likely to mudsling and to be hypocritical than town?
Because townies know they're townies and (usually) will be able to respond to bad cases without relying on such things. That's not to say townies never mudsling or are hypocritical, it's just that they don't do it with the intention of swinging suspicion onto other players/away from themselves. (This is more true for mudslinging than hypocrisy, but the point was not just that AE was a hypocrite, it was that the reasons he used to put suspicion on Brinatoo worked just as well on him, notwithstanding the validity of the Brinatoo case itself.)
So I guess the point is not a matter of more or less, but intention. Not only has AE done everything in his power to swing suspicion onto Brinatoo, he's directly failed to answer my questions without bringing him up, then claimed as such; he's also made other statements which seem to imply an attempt to cast my case* Liquidity Crisis in a bad light. These suggest a more deliberate intention than just self-defense behind his posts.
But more and more, I'm getting the impression that he's just an idiot, which throws that suggestion into question. I hope to have a better sense of the case after he gives me a straight answer.
So I guess the point is not a matter of more or less, but intention. Not only has AE done everything in his power to swing suspicion onto Brinatoo, he's directly failed to answer my questions without bringing him up, then claimed as such; he's also made other statements which seem to imply an attempt to cast my case (slash) me in a bad light. These suggest a more deliberate intention than just self-defense behind his posts.
So what exactly changed between 25 December (the day you made those posts against him) and now? Just that he made the post that got the AE wagon going?
Nothing, I barely read what happened, he was just my top suspect back there and after I rejoin the game I see he's spearheading a wagon and remember I should be voting him.
btw vote: liquid
Also, who are these scummy guys on the AE wagon? In other words, what about your scumsuspects makes them scummy? Show us, put them on the block, instead of just saying things without argumentation.
Agreed.
Kpaca (don't really remember why :sweat:), Brinato (the only thing going for him is that I don't know him and he looks newbie but man, his posts are awful) and Yanni (he's always scummy, so I don't count him very much).
Looking at the five votes currently on Archmage Eternal, I don't see a single one that I feel comfortable is from town, and the last two I actively suspect of being scum. This only cements my read that there is some serious fishiness to this whole affair.
I've played/read a few games with AE, he's always suspected and scummy.Usually dying early no matter the allegiance, I'm always wary of quickwagons on players that tend to be constantly (mis)lynched.
The bold part: How does Brinatoo and Yanni's (I assume they're the "scummy guys" in this case) participation reflect upon me? Did you even read my case?
It'ss actually the other way around, your participation reflect badly onto them, I didn't really paid much attention to your case, but I didn't notice anything really off on it, but that doesn't mean you are right because:
a)town can say scummy things.
b)good scum can "scumhunt" and make good airtight cases agaisnt town.
c)it's AE we are talking about.
[color=DarkOrchid]@Drey - So what went through your mind when ced claimed "oxygen"? Also, could you give a few links to recent games of yours, please? If you've played on other sites recently (i.e. places that my be less familiar to me) give me one or two of those.
Oh, one more thing...I know your panties got all twisty-like at Zas' post, but I cannot recall specifically what it was you hated about it. What was the truly offending part, the most foul thing? The element that forced you out of RVS mode, that's what I want. Link me up if you feel you answered it. It's entirely possible that I missed it.
...but I want to be clear. It is not self-evident. So link me up or tell me, please.
A) Ced was clearly joking about the "oxygen" thing, rvs style, looked like he didn't really took zaz seriously.
b)star trek, WOW(:cool2:) , super mario, bad claims. Never played on another site.
c)I purposely didn't post it to see reactions from everyone and finish RVS once and for all (the funniest part is ppl voting me because I "said things" that didn't even cross my mind). Since them I've revealed it (not that it mattered much, Yanni still thinks I wanted to clear Zaz if he was a vet or something), but not feeling like searching for atm, basically I though he was both fishing for power roles and flavorgame us into the D1 lynch.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I forgot one mostly important thing, I'm not a weakling or anything and I know these things do have a place on mafia, but I'm getting really pissed of by Liquid constantly calling everyone an idiot on every post he makes. We are not idiots, just because we don't agree or think like you mister liquid.
So please learn to use another terms to express your feelings. Just from the top of my head: naive, noob, green, bad, awful.
Hopefully I won't need to address about this again, do not need to respond to this man, just behave.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I've played/read a few games with AE, he's always suspected and scummy.Usually dying early no matter the allegiance, I'm always wary of quickwagons on players that tend to be constantly (mis)lynched.
It'ss actually the other way around, your participation reflect badly onto them, I didn't really paid much attention to your case, but I didn't notice anything really off on it, but that doesn't mean you are right because:
a)town can say scummy things.
b)good scum can "scumhunt" and make good airtight cases agaisnt town.
c)it's AE we are talking about.
The above confuses me to no end.
1) Again, though, why are you suspicious of me because of other people's participation in the wagon? Let's remember, your line was:
Quote from 331 »
the quantity of scummy guys on his wagon just solidifies my early read of liquidity and clear AE.
Explain it again, please.
2) "Your case didn't have any holes in it, but scum can make cases without holes in them, so I can't clear you for making a good case" - well, then what can you clear someone for? Your A and B seem to suggest to me that anyone can be anything, which is naturally useless. And I don't understand where C comes in.
As for the idiot thing, it's not meant to be a term of offense. I'm not saying you're completely incapable of coherent thought, just that your ideas are bad and you are the one with those ideas. If you want, imagine the word "lovable" before each "idiot".
But for your benefit, I'll try to think of other ways to convey that notion without using such foul language.
I'm not sure this notion holds weight for AE. I decided to go through his games and pull down his outcomes to confirm. (Bear in mind I didn't go through the threads themselves to see whether he became a suspect day 1, though I might in the future.)
In chronological order:
Basic (Noob) 26 - Scum, Lynched Day 1
Basic (Noob) 27 - Town (Doctor), endgamed
Battle Royale - Scum, Lynched (I think) Day 3
Amistarian (replaced in) - Town, endgamed
Youkai Academy - Town, Lynched (I think) Day 1
Basic (Noob) 30 - Town, Lynched Day 2
Kithkin - Scum, Lynched Day 1
Basic 3 (Ice Cream Parlor) - Town, endgamed
Basic (Noob) 31 - Town (Doctor), Lynched Day 1
Crackhouse - Town, Killed Night 2
Manga - Scum, Lynched Day 5
Basic 9 - Town, survived to win
Cubus' Normal - Town, Lynched Day 2
Basic 11 - Town, survived to win
Ghost Town - Neutral (iirc), Lynched Day 5
Sword of Truth - Scum, survived to win
Farenheit 451 - Scum (I think), Lynched Day 2
Basic 13 - Town, survived to win
Guildpact - Town, Lynched Day 3
Basic 17 - Town, Lynched Day 4
Anita Blake 2 - Town (Mason), Killed Night 4
Duel Monsters - Town, survived to win
Heroes - Scum, Lynched Day 4
South Park - Scum, survived to win
Goo - Town, Killed Night 5
Basic 29 - Scum, survived to win
Annorax's - Town, Killed (?) Night 2
Basic 32 - Scum, Killed Night 3
Ogre - Town, survived to win
Return to Amistaria - Town, Lynched Day 6
Hecatea - Town, Lynched Day 5
Ged's - Scum, Lynched Day 4
Bad Claims - Scum, survived to win
WoW - Town, Killed Night 4
Basic 48 - Scum, Killed Night 1
CCMV - Scum, Killed Night 1
Basic 50 - Town, endgamed
Cyan's Impossible Mafia A - Scum, Lynched Day 1
That's a lot of games.
My initial impression of this, DRey, is that AE is actually quite good at this game, and has improved steadily over time. While in his earliest games, he was lynched Day 1 pretty consistently, town or scum, he's been rather successful lately, winning games as both town and scum and usually surviving into later days (and he's a more common nightkill target, again as both town and scum).
The sheer number of these games, coupled with that improvement over time, also indicates AE is not an idiot a lesser-abled player, which throws out that theory. If he's dodging, he knows what he's doing. Which just begs the question: is he actually dodging. Which is why I want a straight answer.
Alpha Of course there are "idiot scum" players. I don't see Burst's posts as idiot scum and instead I see them as confused/idiot town. The gut read was town. His responses to Wessel were sub-par which lead me to believe he was scum. He then said he was "confused" which lead me to believe that he is confused or idiot town. I'm willing to take that post at face value given burst's experience.
Why do I have a nagging feeling that you jump to idiot town due to inside knowledge? Truthfully, the only reason I'm not voting you is because I can't fathom the town motivation for Burstinatrix to act the way he did earlier this game, despite his experience level.
I will say that Yanni seems much more concerned with arguing about his scuminess than actually lynching scum. This is especially noticable to me because Yanni's main defense is "you're making things up". Generally when people make things up in relation to me I'm less inclined to spend large amounts of time arguing with them.
This is an worthwhile observation, taking the first part. But the second part I agree with less. Basically the town motive for arguing over 'made-up things' is being defensive, which might not be your thing, but is for others.
Since my idiot list is getting longer, I felt like I should address this:
The way I see it, idiot scum aren't particularly dangerous, because they're idiots and prone to self-destruction if poked in the wrong way. If one of the various idiots we have lying around is scum, there's less risk in having him lying around, because it should become pretty clear if he's idiot scum versus idiot town, but right now, their high volatility makes the idiots impossible to read correctly.
So while I don't care about Brinatoo, DRey, Burstinatrix, or new inductee Yanni, that doesn't mean I'm saying they're perfectly clear; it's just that a) I've seen idiots act like them as town before enough to be pretty comfortable with them in the short term, and b) expect that if they are scum, it should be pretty easy to infer that in future days.
Day 1s are better served pursuing non-idiots whose behaviors are easier to read because they're more consistent with usual town/scum intentions, like AE. So far, I haven't read AE as an idiot because he hasn't done something as bombastically bad as the four above, though that's still something for which I'm watching.
I take your point, countering that if I feel strongly enough about an alignment, I'd rather take the assumed slam-dunk over the riskier 3-pointer.
In this case, the AE wagon gives me pause on his scumminess more so than his own actions, and that is enough reason to stick to wanting a Burstinatrix lynch, even if there is a greater potential reward with lynching AE.
Nothing, I barely read what happened, he was just my top suspect back there and after I rejoin the game I see he's spearheading a wagon and remember I should be voting him.
btw vote: liquid
Here's a wacky idea, and a good way to help yourself remember that you're in the game.
Maybe...take the time to catch yourself up, you know, by reading the thread?
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
My initial impression of this, DRey, is that AE is actually quite good at this game, and has improved steadily over time. While in his earliest games, he was lynched Day 1 pretty consistently, town or scum, he's been rather successful lately, winning games as both town and scum and usually surviving into later days (and he's a more common nightkill target, again as both town and scum).
You'll note that he actually dies faster as scum than as town, on average. I think lynching Archmage Eternal is a trap. If we really think he's a bad guy, we should be vigging him (post-claim, preferably), because his naturally scummy playstyle makes it easy for scum to blend in on the wagon (most of the time). But we're not even there yet. If you don't get the requisite number of votes to force a claim, then this is all just meta theory lacking confidence via corpse. Convince us.
Why do I have a nagging feeling that you jump to idiot town due to inside knowledge? Truthfully, the only reason I'm not voting you is because I can't fathom the town motivation for Burstinatrix to act the way he did earlier this game, despite his experience level.
On top of that, the fact that Yanni took more offense with Artifice 101's post format than with the actual vote against him does not inspire confidence.
Speaking of which, it's high time Burstinatrix came back and posted. I'm starting to think that my vote isn't doing any good where it is right now.
Nothing, I barely read what happened, he was just my top suspect back there and after I rejoin the game I see he's spearheading a wagon and remember I should be voting him.
btw vote: liquid
Kpaca (don't really remember why :sweat:), Brinato (the only thing going for him is that I don't know him and he looks newbie but man, his posts are awful) and Yanni (he's always scummy, so I don't count him very much).
This.
I've played/read a few games with AE, he's always suspected and scummy.Usually dying early no matter the allegiance, I'm always wary of quickwagons on players that tend to be constantly (mis)lynched.
It'ss actually the other way around, your participation reflect badly onto them, I didn't really paid much attention to your case, but I didn't notice anything really off on it, but that doesn't mean you are right because:
a)town can say scummy things.
b)good scum can "scumhunt" and make good airtight cases agaisnt town.
c)it's AE we are talking about.
Untrue, if he was lynched as town or mafia is totally relevant, are you trying to totally disregard meta?
Now onto your old post.
A) Ced was clearly joking about the "oxygen" thing, rvs style, looked like he didn't really took zaz seriously.
b)star trek, WOW(:cool2:) , super mario, bad claims. Never played on another site.
c)I purposely didn't post it to see reactions from everyone and finish RVS once and for all (the funniest part is ppl voting me because I "said things" that didn't even cross my mind). Since them I've revealed it (not that it mattered much, Yanni still thinks I wanted to clear Zaz if he was a vet or something), but not feeling like searching for atm, basically I though he was both fishing for power roles and flavorgame us into the D1 lynch.
lol no.
Drey's obviously not reading
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
Want Higher Level Card Evaluation? Visit Diestoremoval.com
I've made a case out of pinkfloyd. I know it was Christmas time and New Year time, the fact that he had job interviews and had a new mafia game to create, but I think his lack of effort to try to read up on the game, instead posting nonsense posts is worrying.
pinkfloyd's posts:
I'm not saying pinkfloyd is scum (or town or neutral, for that matter) for not being able to post. But pinkfloyd, you're clearly not helping town by just posting things like this. You're not posting anything that can be seen as an effort. You've been saying you have done some read-thoughs, so let us know what you thought, more than just saying +scum points for this and that person.
I see this as trying to get an asy lynch. He said he ha stuff to do and couldn't comment on the game. He knows he is not helping the town by doing this, but you are even worse. You attack a lurker because you can.
unvote
vote weasel
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I have been incredibly helpless, I'm not denying that. I'm reading through now but the past week has been full of so much stuff to do, and a large game like this gains many posts quickly.
Niv makes the case that Brinatoo had not been scumhunting. AE, who hadn't done any either at that stage (because, fair enough, he was busy), came in and agreed with the case.
If you hadn't done anything in a game yet, why would you be concerned by somebody else who is similar?
Not similar. I was concerned because Brinatoo Voted Gigas on gut. Didn't provide any quotes. Then claims its on a hunch and says he has thoughts on other things but says nothing, and hasn't. I in the same time frame had not posted anything outside of random. Do you guys see the difference or am I waaaay of base here? You don't see an issue with someone voting someone and then forgeting about it?
123 - opinion and vote.
Piss poor.
169 - several opinions.
Hence my cruising comment.
Yes, there is no "content" (by which I assume you mean analysis) in these posts, but I do not understand why you are expecting more. Brinatoo is a newb and doesn't seem to be a particularly good one at that. Yet it is worrying how little slack you cut him at an early stage in the game.
Do we make it a theme to let newbs pass by? I understand that they can get caught up or get timid. I was in Zodiac, Void got wagoned real early for some real scummy posts. It looked to be a real easy lynch but I said he was town, couldn't see scum saying those things. I can see Brinatoo doing the things in this game as scum.
Alright, I'm up to post #250, and I've got to say, a lot of this game is junk.
Here's the people who I've found notable so far.
Yanni - Voted for Drey, calling him scum without reasoning, then implicates Burst and Drey as scumbuddies - again without reasoning. I find this kind of behaviour super scummy.
Wessel - Went after Burstinatrix in a frenzied and super hungry manner. I don't like it. (If someone asks you to repeat a question they missed, just quote him the damn post, man, don't jump down their throat.)
ZasZ234 - First post seems a bit forced, to me, and could be an excuse not to randomvote, which seems more in line for scums than towns. That said, I don't think he was coaching.
Brinatoo - At first, I disliked him, for his vote on Gigas for no reason. Then everyone jumped on him for this reason, and I feel he's defended himself very well, and in a townish manner, especially given that he's rather new.
DRey - Seems legit, if obtuse. I like him more because of Yanni's crappy vote on him. Why hasn't Yanni been given more crap about that, by the way?
But again, you're still not addressing the hypocritical stance you took at that moment, criticizing him for lack of content when that was your first substantive post.
OK let me see if we can get over this. I would agree with you if I was posting fluff and placing empty votes. I came in after the holiday and saw him doing these things. Now to criticize him and then clam up and not post then yeah, I'd be hypocritical.
Brinatoo - At first, I disliked him, for his vote on Gigas for no reason. Then everyone jumped on him for this reason, and I feel he's defended himself very well, and in a townish manner, especially given that he's rather new.
Holy ****. Implode. Can anyone see scum Niv doing this? I have never played with him.
Niv. There is no deadline and no need to rush bull**** lynches. I want more content FROM EVERYBODY before I can make an educated decision. Otherwise it is likely a mislynch with low interactions. The best thing to do this early on is pressuring.
Okay three things. You don't know how I play. I can point out people that have not provided much content either. If I provide you content, will you still erupt like this? I don't like to work with people that are yelling at my face.
Yes. I played Pulp Fiction with you. You were a strong town read for me much of the entire game and I never once doubted you. You strike me as playing very differently without even comparing. Just from prior knowledge of the game.
I am not sure how I should take you trying to help me out. I am still very mad at how I missed you in Monster Island. Right now, I am getting a town gut though. But here's some "zero content" for the masses.
What is stupid? My gameplay? What strikes you as scummy? Niv, I don't know how you play. You jumping on me like this tells me more about your frustration and either shows that I stepped on the tail of a lion or you are genuinely pissed off. And stop saying I am not providing content. You are the only annoyed person I see and I have not been nightkilled by town as town yet. Scum tends to keep me alive for mislynches.
Oh, here's someone who is "providing no content." Saying that I am lashing out at Niv is a complete misrep on your part.
Okay. In your opinion, that was a complete unnatural construction. And you bold one part, but not the rest that at the least shows me fencesitting and being undecided on the matter.
Slip? Lol.
I have a town vibe from you. Or you are cashing in on a good opportunity.
Usually a given time of the day during a break. I like to enjoy my breaks and post more in mafia when I am at college.
Oh hey, another "zero content vote." And I love where this "me lashing out at Niv" is coming from. It did not happen.
lash·ing [lash-ing]
noun
1.
the act of a person or thing that lashes.
2.
a whipping with or as if with a lash. 3. a severe scolding; tongue-lashing.
I was thinking he was lashing more out at me for my "stupid scummy things."
That is backwards to me. If I am right about Gigas, then, at the time, Niv struck me as a possible scumbuddy. It was not a conditional situation that my read at the time towards Niv was anything to really value, hence the rest of the sentence. But I have no prior knowledge to how Niv plays at all and it is just a hypothesis. Him blowing up me was a huge tonal change, in my opinion, genuinely pissed off. I asked if anyone can see scum Niv doing this...got no response...
That isn't what I said. I said Niv might be scumbuddies with Gigas but I have no clue how Niv plays.
Salutations.
Salutationsx2.
I think others will disagree with this.
His tone strikes me as frustrated, which is a bad thing. I was asking others for their opinion if this strikes to them as scummy Niv. I don't know Niv.
Explain how I am discrediting him. He is saying that I have posted no content, which is not true. That was in no way a deflection. It was a request for a decent amount of discussion from our group.
He was lashing out at me.
lash·ing [lash-ing]
noun
1.
the act of a person or thing that lashes.
2.
a whipping with or as if with a lash.
3.
a severe scolding; tongue-lashing.
Ha! You wish.
Basics 51-54 on this site. Replaced in Amnesia. In 3 atm. Only one on Mafiascum that I replaced into.
I'm not sure this notion holds weight for AE. I decided to go through his games and pull down his outcomes to confirm. (Bear in mind I didn't go through the threads themselves to see whether he became a suspect day 1, though I might in the future.)
In chronological order:
Basic (Noob) 26 - Scum, Lynched Day 1
Basic (Noob) 27 - Town (Doctor), endgamed
Battle Royale - Scum, Lynched (I think) Day 3
Amistarian (replaced in) - Town, endgamed
Youkai Academy - Town, Lynched (I think) Day 1
Basic (Noob) 30 - Town, Lynched Day 2
Kithkin - Scum, Lynched Day 1
Basic 3 (Ice Cream Parlor) - Town, endgamed
Basic (Noob) 31 - Town (Doctor), Lynched Day 1
Crackhouse - Town, Killed Night 2
Manga - Scum, Lynched Day 5
Basic 9 - Town, survived to win
Cubus' Normal - Town, Lynched Day 2
Basic 11 - Town, survived to win
Ghost Town - Neutral (iirc), Lynched Day 5
Sword of Truth - Scum, survived to win
Farenheit 451 - Scum (I think), Lynched Day 2
Basic 13 - Town, survived to win
Guildpact - Town, Lynched Day 3
Basic 17 - Town, Lynched Day 4
Anita Blake 2 - Town (Mason), Killed Night 4
Duel Monsters - Town, survived to win
Heroes - Scum, Lynched Day 4
South Park - Scum, survived to win
Goo - Town, Killed Night 5
Basic 29 - Scum, survived to win
Annorax's - Town, Killed (?) Night 2
Basic 32 - Scum, Killed Night 3
Ogre - Town, survived to win
Return to Amistaria - Town, Lynched Day 6
Hecatea - Town, Lynched Day 5
Ged's - Scum, Lynched Day 4
Bad Claims - Scum, survived to win
WoW - Town, Killed Night 4
Basic 48 - Scum, Killed Night 1
CCMV - Scum, Killed Night 1
Basic 50 - Town, endgamed
Cyan's Impossible Mafia A - Scum, Lynched Day 1
That's a lot of games.
Wow, I bow my hat to you, even if you are scum at least you are putting effort on playing this game (at least much more than me :-/).
Sorry for my lack of involvement, the holidays, my sickness and the fact I'm playing on too many games is just draining my forces. I will reread what I missed and hopefully provide more valuable input soon.
The sheer number of these games, coupled with that improvement over time, also indicates AE is not an idiot a lesser-abled player, which throws out that theory. If he's dodging, he knows what he's doing. Which just begs the question: is he actually dodging. Which is why I want a straight answer.
The bolded is a question to whom? AE? if he's scum what do you expect to hear from him? I find it highly unlikely he will claim scum on his own, why don't you ask people "hey, are you scum?" next?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Meanwhile let me unvote again.
The bolded is a question to whom? AE? if he's scum what do you expect to hear from him? I find it highly unlikely he will claim scum on his own, why don't you ask people "hey, are you scum?" next?
The "question" was rhetorical. I don't know that he's scum, I just suspect it, and a large part of why I suspect he's scum is because I'm still unable to get him to answer the real questions I've asked him (in our back-and-forth).
OK let me see if we can get over this. I would agree with you if I was posting fluff and placing empty votes. I came in after the holiday and saw him doing these things. Now to criticize him and then clam up and not post then yeah, I'd be hypocritical.
This is so wrong and people are just clinging to it as hard as they can. At the time I wasn't doing anything. I just started. At the time Brinatoo was playing. Had a vote down. There is a major difference.
I don't let mafia frustrate me either but this crap is pissing me off!
Major difference? Not really, my vote was close to doing nothing. But I got something out of it, all of this and more, right?
Voting this early in the game does not necessarily mean that they are doing much. It's the content attached to it.
Brinatoo isn't even trying to scum hunt anymore. Such aggressive apathy.
What is on virtual paper isn't the whole story. As for the aggressive apathy, that is just how I am sometimes, indifferent. It's a really bad trait and also is why I procrastinate as much as I do.
As for the idiot thing, it's not meant to be a term of offense. I'm not saying you're completely incapable of coherent thought, just that your ideas are bad and you are the one with those ideas. If you want, imagine the word "lovable" before each "idiot".
Just read this sentence. It doesn't make any sense.
English fail again >.< Lemme try again "You have these thoughts about me that are leaning me scum right? Look into it more (tunnel-vision) while I assure you that you are wrong." If that wasn't good enough, I will dread my writing course in the spring.
I'm trying to make sense out of it, please tell me if I'm wrong.
What you're trying to say is that if I were to 'read your posts', I couldn't be sure you are scum?
Is that right?
Well, I made my statement of "Worst scumbuddy pat on the back ever" because I found the way you wrote it scummy. Unnecessary.
One thats followed by a hunch with nothing to solidify that does. The fact that you keep saying how much of a newb he is and he has this gut feeling on Gigas like he's had this history with him does.
Yes, it's a small time frame. Why do you think you can make such predictions about Brinatoo's play (that he will coast for the rest of the game) from such a span of time? If I was to extrapolate from your posts in that period, I would say that you'd never post anything ever - clearly not true.
Just a simple feel of the play at the time.
So I can understand you clearly - exactly what accusation are you making in the above sentence?
Since it hasn't been said over and over let me say it again. He comes in and just places a vote. Adds nothing to it and doesn't mention Gigas.
Obvious question: can you see Brinatoo doing them as town?
If not, why not?
No. I can't see him as town coming in and voting someone and then sitting back. Saying gut/hunch and the post I alluded to as playing to the town just doesn't come across as town.
OK let me see if we can get over this. I would agree with you if I was posting fluff and placing empty votes. I came in after the holiday and saw him doing these things. Now to criticize him and then clam up and not post then yeah, I'd be hypocritical.
Alright, I reread this. It's still phrased really strangely, but I think I got the gist of it.
Long story short: I made another big post to try to explain this whole thing, but I realized it resembled every other post we've had. I suspect now that you genuinely believe that you and Brinatoo did different things and that difference acquits you. I'd say you're wrong, but our purpose here is not to be right or wrong, but to find the intention, and whether or not you're right, I'm not sure anymore that you just wanted to hop on Niv's wagon in 185.
That, and, I'll be honest, I'm not thrilled with the course this wagon has taken, either; while I'm not immediately suspicious of people like Yanni, since I have them in my idiot differently-abled pile, that doesn't mean I don't feel like we aren't getting anywhere. Thus, it seems only right that I
Unvote
with the caveat that I'll reassess AE once I've seen him talk about people other than Brinatoo.
Untrue, if he was lynched as town or mafia is totally relevant, are you trying to totally disregard meta?
In that setup there was no "town" nor "mafia". Even if you haven't read the game in question the content of Ced's post followed by mine should give you a clue there might be more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I spoke as to how to weigh that performance for meta, not disregard it.
...so you're pretty clearly not thinking ced has been joking around rvs style. Ced not only claimed in post 9, but supported ZasZ234's proposal. Remember? Why didn't you respond to that, btw? Particularly considering the following response from you:
Oh, one more thing...I know your panties got all twisty-like at Zas' post, but I cannot recall specifically what it was you hated about it. What was the truly offending part, the most foul thing? The element that forced you out of RVS mode, that's what I want. Link me up if you feel you answered it. It's entirely possible that I missed it.
c)I purposely didn't post it to see reactions from everyone and finish RVS once and for all (the funniest part is ppl voting me because I "said things" that didn't even cross my mind). Since them I've revealed it (not that it mattered much, Yanni still thinks I wanted to clear Zaz if he was a vet or something), but not feeling like searching for atm, basically I though he was both fishing for power roles and flavorgame us into the D1 lynch.
If you were so concerned with fishing, why wouldn't you address ced's support for Zas' idea? You want put a damper on that sort of thing, don't you? I mean, you're obviously quite annoyed by the idea: You pounced and voted straight out of the gate, and even made a point to let folks know it was a serious vote. Even if I were to believe you saw ced's post as a joke (which it was, but you clearly weren't taking it as such), you should be preemptively plugging the hole in the dam.
Also, being concerned he was trying to flavorgame us into a lynch defies plausibility. It only takes a moment of thought to see how far down the bad paths we'd have to walk to get there. It's a remarkably Bad Idea, hence the humor in Zas' post. You would have me believe that you cannot see the facetiousness in this:
I haven't done a full reread yet, and I probably won't, but I reread some posts and I really don't like Yanni's behaviour thus far. I noticed that WoD feels similarly to how I do; does anyone else? I'm asking this because my read on Yanni is almost always scummy, so I don't want to end up doing what we usually do and just waste time.
#175 - reaction on Niv
[I]This post I recall being brought up a few times. Notable is the language here (more in the end): "need to rush bull**** lynches" regarding (I assume) Niv's vote on DRey.[/I]
No, read Niv's tone. He sounds like he wants to lynch out of frustration.
#179 - reaction to Niv
[I]Three points are brought up:
Brinatoo's playstyle - I assume to explain the lack of content
anonymous "other people" - I assume to justify lack of content via "bad + bad = good"
An offer to provide content(?)[/I]
I don't know what you mean with the bad+bad=good
#204 - reacting to everyone
[I]The post I recall Niv and AE pointing out; their conclusions were detrimental opposites though.
quote by quote (best have the post in a seperate window):
*shot at Gigas1 - based on gut again
*explanation on vote against Gigas1: meta based on comparison (of note: the exact same post was not answered in #169 - no new post of Gigas1 in the meantime - a total of 2 + 1 RVS)
*I don't get everything, but it seems like kpaca's request for content is more pressing than Niv's and gives him town points(? - elaboration would be nice)
*reply to Niv:
+I don't know how stepping on the tail of a lion would not result in someone genuinely pissed of - Brinatoo seems to insinuate Niv as scum here (noted)
+says Niv is the only annoyed person visible - apparently discounting anyone who didn't yell in addition to noting the lack of content
*tells AE that lashing out against Niv is a misrep - aggressive defense
*iLord's portrayal of Brinatoo's statement is called into question - this would be okay, but the ridicule in the end needs to be noted
*the ced395-dialogue - I'm as confused as ced, Brinatoo needs to elaborate in excruciating detail every step of that conversation that follows
*outside of game reasoning - null
*denying lashing against Niv - getting cocky with dictionary entry
Kpaca is a loose town read. Already explained about Niv. I didn't lash out at Niv, that is why I posted a definition of it->not being cocky. Ridicule at iLord? with "Slip? Lol" ?! I disagree. Ridicule is much more meaningful and means I am personally belittling him. Do I think him wrong, yes. But am I calling him a moron or idiot? No, just wrong.
#316 - reply to Niv; vote against AE
[I]of note:
*defense for the supposed "lashing out against Niv" is "explaining the truth"
+I'll come around here and add my opinion: Telling the truth while at the same time insinuating someone is rushing a lynch, calling their wagon an inflammatory name and using more language of that kind makes for a nice noncommittal discrediting, right.
I don't care about the correct usage of the word "lashing", but agree with the intent of calling Brinatoo out.
*Whatever the reason for the vote here is 100% content provided by another player[/I]
Insinuating? No it's there, AE wants more votes on me. And LC had described it how I read it, if I just added my bit, it would look like the weaker twin.
#397 - multi reply
[I]I'll know more about this once I reread AE.
of note: Brinatoo now excuses not going on record with opinions - setting up more barning in the future[/I]
Totally not setting up barning.
+ for every person you declared town, give a reason
* especially ced395
If you look up the quote chain, you will see my explanation for ced. As for the others that I thought were town, those were loose reads at the time and not strong by any means.
+ state the players you have no read on because of lack of content explicitely
They know if they are lacking it or not. I would like 10 posts with atleast something in it from everyone. That's a safe number
I'd like you to demonstrate how you came to the conclusion that DRey isn't reading, and how him not voting makes him more likely to be scum. Posts like this are just strawman.
I haven't done a full reread yet, and I probably won't, but I reread some posts and I really don't like Yanni's behaviour thus far. I noticed that WoD feels similarly to how I do; does anyone else? I'm asking this because my read on Yanni is almost always scummy, so I don't want to end up doing what we usually do and just waste time.
Translation: "I don't plan on catching up because I know who the town and scum are, and it turns out that the nonentity known as Wrath_of_DoG thinks the lynchbait known as Yanni is scum, so there must be more people we can sucker into lynching him. I also want to leave myself wiggle room because I know Yanni is going to flip town."
So Burstinatrix just cemented himself as scum in my eyes, and by doing so, cleared Yanni. Which isn't to say that Yanni's failure to do anything relevant thrills me. WoD's alignment is not directly linked to Burst's, but if I'm reading this situation correctly, WoD is, more likely than not, also a dupe-to-be.
EBWoP (@Yanni): "I'd like you to demonstrate how you came to the conclusion that DRey isn't reading, and how him not reading makes him more likely to be scum. Posts like this are just strawman."
wow, I just spent an hour+ typing up one of my quote wall catch up posts, and proceded to hit the X at the top right corner of my web browser and lose it all.......
so, I'm not going to be able to do it again, but I will post what I'm thinking.
Every post Brin's made in that read still strikes me as absoutly terrible.
the thing that's bugging me the most is his insistence for having content from everyone before contributing. if he honestly thinks that's valid play, then he's really awful.
seriously, if everyone were to play that way, We'd get no where, everyone would be waiting for content from everyone else, and no one would ever get content into the thread because everyone would be just waiting for content from everyone else. you have no right to just say "no content from me till I have it from everyone else" this is just hypocrytical. if you honestly belive you have this right, seriously think through what you're saying before you say it.
but really, I don't honestly think you can actually believe this, and for that, I'm incidentally still happy with my vote.
I did have things for other people too, but I don't have the time to finish that, so, hopefully I'll get back to just rewriting what I actually had another time, or, I very well may not, and just stay caught up with what's current. either way, I still think brin's terrible, and should be lynched.
-----
one thing though I'd actually like a direct answer from is pink floyd:
why do you feel the need to spam the thread and not just say "sorry busy, more later"
what you're doing now is pointless, and just says you replace out. seriously, there were like 4 posts that were nothing but spam from you. do you really just want to inflate your post count that bad?
I'd like you to demonstrate how you came to the conclusion that DRey isn't reading, and how him not voting makes him more likely to be scum. Posts like this are just strawman.
Translation: "I don't plan on catching up because I know who the town and scum are, and it turns out that the nonentity known as Wrath_of_DoG thinks the lynchbait known as Yanni is scum, so there must be more people we can sucker into lynching him. I also want to leave myself wiggle room because I know Yanni is going to flip town."
So Burstinatrix just cemented himself as scum in my eyes, and by doing so, cleared Yanni. Which isn't to say that Yanni's failure to do anything relevant thrills me. WoD's alignment is not directly linked to Burst's, but if I'm reading this situation correctly, WoD is, more likely than not, also a dupe-to-be.
kpacastan, telling it like it is. (Though it's "undoubtedly." :teach:)
Who wants to join me and Alpha in forming a wagonvoting bloc against Burstinatrix?
Read Drey's post and you can see how he isn't reading.
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scumbag
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Read Drey's post and you can see how he isn't reading.
Not helpful. You're the one making the accusation; I'm not going to substantiate it for you. As Pale Mage would say, walk me through it as if I were five.
Back. Did *anything* happen while I was gone? Doesn't seem like it.
*Reading AE gives me more of a frustrated vibe than a scum one. The speed of the wagon adds to that as well. At least he's going out of his way to explain his position.
*Brin less so, but I'm not buying into that right now. Some deflecting and heavy lurking early on, but I've been gone as well, so I'm not knocking anyone right now for this being a tough time of year.
@Yanni-
I'd like to see what you're referring to as far as DRey too. Maybe I'm scrambling to catch up and missing things, but if you could build that case with what you're referring to, I'd love to see it. There's gotta be something to back an accusation like that.
Rereading to get caught up...let me know if I'm missing anything I should not be.
Translation: "I don't plan on catching up because I know who the town and scum are, and it turns out that the nonentity known as Wrath_of_DoG thinks the lynchbait known as Yanni is scum, so there must be more people we can sucker into lynching him. I also want to leave myself wiggle room because I know Yanni is going to flip town."
So Burstinatrix just cemented himself as scum in my eyes, and by doing so, cleared Yanni. Which isn't to say that Yanni's failure to do anything relevant thrills me. WoD's alignment is not directly linked to Burst's, but if I'm reading this situation correctly, WoD is, more likely than not, also a dupe-to-be.
1) I don't need to reread because I've already read.
2) I'm asking for people's opinion of Yanni because I almost always think he's scum and am wondering if they think it's normal Yanni or if he's actually scum. I don't want to waste time and have scum hide behind our arguments like they normally do.
I'd like you to demonstrate how you came to the conclusion that DRey isn't reading, and how him not voting makes him more likely to be scum. Posts like this are just strawman.
Quote from Burst »
I haven't done a full reread yet, and I probably won't, but I reread some posts and I really don't like Yanni's behaviour thus far. I noticed that WoD feels similarly to how I do; does anyone else? I'm asking this because my read on Yanni is almost always scummy, so I don't want to end up doing what we usually do and just waste time.
Translation: "I don't plan on catching up because I know who the town and scum are, and it turns out that the nonentity known as Wrath_of_DoG thinks the lynchbait known as Yanni is scum, so there must be more people we can sucker into lynching him. I also want to leave myself wiggle room because I know Yanni is going to flip town."
So Burstinatrix just cemented himself as scum in my eyes, and by doing so, cleared Yanni. Which isn't to say that Yanni's failure to do anything relevant thrills me. WoD's alignment is not directly linked to Burst's, but if I'm reading this situation correctly, WoD is, more likely than not, also a dupe-to-be.
kpacastan, telling it like it is. (Though it's "undoubtedly." :teach:)
Who wants to join me and Alpha in forming a wagonvoting bloc against Burstinatrix?
Please walk me through how you get from the underlined to the bolded without taking an insanely scummy leap in logic?
How do these two become a dichotomy that you are certain of so suddenly?
Also, how do you describe Yanni as lynchbait and not do the same for Burst?
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Please walk me through how you get from the underlined to the bolded without taking an insanely scummy leap in logic?
How do these two become a dichotomy that you are certain of so suddenly?
Also, how do you describe Yanni as lynchbait and not do the same for Burst?
When taken with his admission of painting another player as scummy (#45; note the borderline hostile tone of "pretty obvious" in his backtrack post #48), his failure to keep his facts straight (#61), his admitting to following previous scum meta (#125; I somehow missed this originally, props to Alpha for pointing it out in #141) and his inability to explain his actions in a rational and town-minded way (#134-#156), Burstinatrix's unwillingness to reread suddenly seems a lot less like bad town play and a lot more like scum trying to worm his way to an easy lynch.
Burst being scum clears Yanni. That should be apparent.
Burst can't be lynchbait in a game where he is scum. I'm sure he gets lynched as town, too. That doesn't make him town here.
When taken with his admission of painting another player as scummy (#45; note the borderline hostile tone of "pretty obvious" in his backtrack post #48), his failure to keep his facts straight (#61), his admitting to following previous scum meta (#125; I somehow missed this originally, props to Alpha for pointing it out in #141) and his inability to explain his actions in a rational and town-minded way (#134-#156)
Is this all from notes?
Burstinatrix's unwillingness to reread suddenly seems a lot less like bad town play and a lot more like scum trying to worm his way to an easy lynch.
Why?
Burst being scum clears Yanni. That should be apparent.
Again, why?
Burst can't be lynchbait in a game where he is scum. I'm sure he gets lynched as town, too. That doesn't make him town here.
No, I don't think you understand me. Why is Yanni lynchbait, and Burst scum. Why can't they both be lynchbait or Yanni be scum?
Any more questions?
see above^^
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I have many memories of AE getting dogpiled and lynched early on. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Kithkin and Fahrenheit 451, though I might be forgetting a few. Although that in itself is not a good reason not to lynch him, as he was scum in both of the above games, I definitely don't think the AE case holds any water right now. I was just pointing out part of why I think ced's vote is opportunistic.
=========================
Brinatoo isn't even trying to scum hunt anymore. Such aggressive apathy.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Once more with feeling?
But the point is you're implying I'm deliberately trying to twist what you say to look scummy. I can understand a townie suspecting a scum is trying to put one on him, but it's the way you phrased that line that makes me feel like you're trying to slap mud on my case.
Well, since most of the content I see after that point is directed toward the Brinatoo case, I'd say you two are probably about even on the positive contributions.
But again, you're still not addressing the hypocritical stance you took at that moment, criticizing him for lack of content when that was your first substantive post.
That's the very definition of a deflection - making a conversation about X also/instead about Y. Stop making this about him; like I said, I don't care.
Right, but a) you're distorting the value of what he posted, and b) again, how does this not describe YOU? You had no content before relentlessly barning Niv's vote and jumping on the nascent wagon! Stealing Niv's argument with essentially no additions doesn't make you a "scumhunter"!
No you're not giving me straight answers. Every answer above is "oh, but see how Brinatoo did X". We're talking about you.
Do me a favor. In your next response to my questions, please refrain from using Brinatoo's name or pronouns for said. Can you do that for me, please?
The fact that I can't get a straight answer from AE, though, is starting to make me doubt my conclusions. Nobody deflects this hard unless they really believe they're in the right and the target of the deflection is guilty. Enghh... got more rereading to do.
Hey, LC, in your opinion, why are scum more likely to mudsling and to be hypocritical than town?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Because townies know they're townies and (usually) will be able to respond to bad cases without relying on such things. That's not to say townies never mudsling or are hypocritical, it's just that they don't do it with the intention of swinging suspicion onto other players/away from themselves. (This is more true for mudslinging than hypocrisy, but the point was not just that AE was a hypocrite, it was that the reasons he used to put suspicion on Brinatoo worked just as well on him, notwithstanding the validity of the Brinatoo case itself.)
So I guess the point is not a matter of more or less, but intention. Not only has AE done everything in his power to swing suspicion onto Brinatoo, he's directly failed to answer my questions without bringing him up, then claimed as such; he's also made other statements which seem to imply an attempt to cast my case* Liquidity Crisis in a bad light. These suggest a more deliberate intention than just self-defense behind his posts.
But more and more, I'm getting the impression that he's just an idiot, which throws that suggestion into question. I hope to have a better sense of the case after he gives me a straight answer.
The paragraph should have read:
So I guess the point is not a matter of more or less, but intention. Not only has AE done everything in his power to swing suspicion onto Brinatoo, he's directly failed to answer my questions without bringing him up, then claimed as such; he's also made other statements which seem to imply an attempt to cast my case (slash) me in a bad light. These suggest a more deliberate intention than just self-defense behind his posts.
btw vote: liquid
Kpaca (don't really remember why :sweat:), Brinato (the only thing going for him is that I don't know him and he looks newbie but man, his posts are awful) and Yanni (he's always scummy, so I don't count him very much).
This.
I've played/read a few games with AE, he's always suspected and scummy.Usually dying early no matter the allegiance, I'm always wary of quickwagons on players that tend to be constantly (mis)lynched.
It'ss actually the other way around, your participation reflect badly onto them, I didn't really paid much attention to your case, but I didn't notice anything really off on it, but that doesn't mean you are right because:
a)town can say scummy things.
b)good scum can "scumhunt" and make good airtight cases agaisnt town.
c)it's AE we are talking about.
Untrue, if he was lynched as town or mafia is totally relevant, are you trying to totally disregard meta?
Now onto your old post.
A) Ced was clearly joking about the "oxygen" thing, rvs style, looked like he didn't really took zaz seriously.
b)star trek, WOW(:cool2:) , super mario, bad claims. Never played on another site.
c)I purposely didn't post it to see reactions from everyone and finish RVS once and for all (the funniest part is ppl voting me because I "said things" that didn't even cross my mind). Since them I've revealed it (not that it mattered much, Yanni still thinks I wanted to clear Zaz if he was a vet or something), but not feeling like searching for atm, basically I though he was both fishing for power roles and flavorgame us into the D1 lynch.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So please learn to use another terms to express your feelings. Just from the top of my head: naive, noob, green, bad, awful.
Hopefully I won't need to address about this again, do not need to respond to this man, just behave.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Who wants to catch me up?
LOL
The above confuses me to no end.
1) Again, though, why are you suspicious of me because of other people's participation in the wagon? Let's remember, your line was:
Explain it again, please.
2) "Your case didn't have any holes in it, but scum can make cases without holes in them, so I can't clear you for making a good case" - well, then what can you clear someone for? Your A and B seem to suggest to me that anyone can be anything, which is naturally useless. And I don't understand where C comes in.
As for the idiot thing, it's not meant to be a term of offense. I'm not saying you're completely incapable of coherent thought, just that your ideas are bad and you are the one with those ideas. If you want, imagine the word "lovable" before each "idiot".
But for your benefit, I'll try to think of other ways to convey that notion without using such foul language.
LOL
I'm not sure this notion holds weight for AE. I decided to go through his games and pull down his outcomes to confirm. (Bear in mind I didn't go through the threads themselves to see whether he became a suspect day 1, though I might in the future.)
In chronological order:
Basic (Noob) 26 - Scum, Lynched Day 1
Basic (Noob) 27 - Town (Doctor), endgamed
Battle Royale - Scum, Lynched (I think) Day 3
Amistarian (replaced in) - Town, endgamed
Youkai Academy - Town, Lynched (I think) Day 1
Basic (Noob) 30 - Town, Lynched Day 2
Kithkin - Scum, Lynched Day 1
Basic 3 (Ice Cream Parlor) - Town, endgamed
Basic (Noob) 31 - Town (Doctor), Lynched Day 1
Crackhouse - Town, Killed Night 2
Manga - Scum, Lynched Day 5
Basic 9 - Town, survived to win
Cubus' Normal - Town, Lynched Day 2
Basic 11 - Town, survived to win
Ghost Town - Neutral (iirc), Lynched Day 5
Sword of Truth - Scum, survived to win
Farenheit 451 - Scum (I think), Lynched Day 2
Basic 13 - Town, survived to win
Guildpact - Town, Lynched Day 3
Basic 17 - Town, Lynched Day 4
Anita Blake 2 - Town (Mason), Killed Night 4
Duel Monsters - Town, survived to win
Heroes - Scum, Lynched Day 4
South Park - Scum, survived to win
Goo - Town, Killed Night 5
Basic 29 - Scum, survived to win
Annorax's - Town, Killed (?) Night 2
Basic 32 - Scum, Killed Night 3
Ogre - Town, survived to win
Return to Amistaria - Town, Lynched Day 6
Hecatea - Town, Lynched Day 5
Ged's - Scum, Lynched Day 4
Bad Claims - Scum, survived to win
WoW - Town, Killed Night 4
Basic 48 - Scum, Killed Night 1
CCMV - Scum, Killed Night 1
Basic 50 - Town, endgamed
Cyan's Impossible Mafia A - Scum, Lynched Day 1
That's a lot of games.
My initial impression of this, DRey, is that AE is actually quite good at this game, and has improved steadily over time. While in his earliest games, he was lynched Day 1 pretty consistently, town or scum, he's been rather successful lately, winning games as both town and scum and usually surviving into later days (and he's a more common nightkill target, again as both town and scum).
The sheer number of these games, coupled with that improvement over time, also indicates AE is not
an idiota lesser-abled player, which throws out that theory. If he's dodging, he knows what he's doing. Which just begs the question: is he actually dodging. Which is why I want a straight answer.Why do I have a nagging feeling that you jump to idiot town due to inside knowledge? Truthfully, the only reason I'm not voting you is because I can't fathom the town motivation for Burstinatrix to act the way he did earlier this game, despite his experience level.
Is this a documented occurrence or are you just spit-balling?
This is an worthwhile observation, taking the first part. But the second part I agree with less. Basically the town motive for arguing over 'made-up things' is being defensive, which might not be your thing, but is for others.
I take your point, countering that if I feel strongly enough about an alignment, I'd rather take the assumed slam-dunk over the riskier 3-pointer.
In this case, the AE wagon gives me pause on his scumminess more so than his own actions, and that is enough reason to stick to wanting a Burstinatrix lynch, even if there is a greater potential reward with lynching AE.
That's always an effective scum-hunting method.
Here's a wacky idea, and a good way to help yourself remember that you're in the game.
Maybe...take the time to catch yourself up, you know, by reading the thread?
You'll note that he actually dies faster as scum than as town, on average. I think lynching Archmage Eternal is a trap. If we really think he's a bad guy, we should be vigging him (post-claim, preferably), because his naturally scummy playstyle makes it easy for scum to blend in on the wagon (most of the time). But we're not even there yet. If you don't get the requisite number of votes to force a claim, then this is all just meta theory lacking confidence via corpse. Convince us.
On top of that, the fact that Yanni took more offense with Artifice 101's post format than with the actual vote against him does not inspire confidence.
Speaking of which, it's high time Burstinatrix came back and posted. I'm starting to think that my vote isn't doing any good where it is right now.
LOL
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LOL
lol no.
Drey's obviously not reading
scumbag
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I see this as trying to get an asy lynch. He said he ha stuff to do and couldn't comment on the game. He knows he is not helping the town by doing this, but you are even worse. You attack a lurker because you can.
unvote
vote weasel
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I'm reading what I didn't have time for now
LOL
LOL
And I said I was snarth'd because he also said some things that sounded exactly like what I said
LOL
Votecount:
AE (5) - Liquidity Crisis, ced, kpaca, Brinatoo, Yanni
Brinatoo (3) - Niv, AE, iLord
Burst (2) - Alpha, Asian
Wessel (2) - WoD, vezok
Liquidity Crisis (1) - Gigas
ZasZ (1) - pinkfloyd
Yanni (1) - Art
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.
The Aeon Clock stands at 4.
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Not similar. I was concerned because Brinatoo Voted Gigas on gut. Didn't provide any quotes. Then claims its on a hunch and says he has thoughts on other things but says nothing, and hasn't. I in the same time frame had not posted anything outside of random. Do you guys see the difference or am I waaaay of base here? You don't see an issue with someone voting someone and then forgeting about it?
Piss poor.
Hence my cruising comment.
Do we make it a theme to let newbs pass by? I understand that they can get caught up or get timid. I was in Zodiac, Void got wagoned real early for some real scummy posts. It looked to be a real easy lynch but I said he was town, couldn't see scum saying those things. I can see Brinatoo doing the things in this game as scum.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Here's the people who I've found notable so far.
Yanni - Voted for Drey, calling him scum without reasoning, then implicates Burst and Drey as scumbuddies - again without reasoning. I find this kind of behaviour super scummy.
Wessel - Went after Burstinatrix in a frenzied and super hungry manner. I don't like it. (If someone asks you to repeat a question they missed, just quote him the damn post, man, don't jump down their throat.)
ZasZ234 - First post seems a bit forced, to me, and could be an excuse not to randomvote, which seems more in line for scums than towns. That said, I don't think he was coaching.
Brinatoo - At first, I disliked him, for his vote on Gigas for no reason. Then everyone jumped on him for this reason, and I feel he's defended himself very well, and in a townish manner, especially given that he's rather new.
DRey - Seems legit, if obtuse. I like him more because of Yanni's crappy vote on him. Why hasn't Yanni been given more crap about that, by the way?
Unvote, Vote Yanni
I will keep reading.
OK let me see if we can get over this. I would agree with you if I was posting fluff and placing empty votes. I came in after the holiday and saw him doing these things. Now to criticize him and then clam up and not post then yeah, I'd be hypocritical.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Defended himself very well? Where?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
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Wow, I bow my hat to you, even if you are scum at least you are putting effort on playing this game (at least much more than me :-/).
Sorry for my lack of involvement, the holidays, my sickness and the fact I'm playing on too many games is just draining my forces. I will reread what I missed and hopefully provide more valuable input soon.
Meanwhile let me unvote again.
The bolded is a question to whom? AE? if he's scum what do you expect to hear from him? I find it highly unlikely he will claim scum on his own, why don't you ask people "hey, are you scum?" next?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
The "question" was rhetorical. I don't know that he's scum, I just suspect it, and a large part of why I suspect he's scum is because I'm still unable to get him to answer the real questions I've asked him (in our back-and-forth).
Could you rephrase that, I don't understand.
Major difference? Not really, my vote was close to doing nothing. But I got something out of it, all of this and more, right?
Voting this early in the game does not necessarily mean that they are doing much. It's the content attached to it.
What is on virtual paper isn't the whole story. As for the aggressive apathy, that is just how I am sometimes, indifferent. It's a really bad trait and also is why I procrastinate as much as I do.
Try lovable oaf
English fail again >.< Lemme try again "You have these thoughts about me that are leaning me scum right? Look into it more (tunnel-vision) while I assure you that you are wrong." If that wasn't good enough, I will dread my writing course in the spring.
Nah that's pretty much it.
One thats followed by a hunch with nothing to solidify that does. The fact that you keep saying how much of a newb he is and he has this gut feeling on Gigas like he's had this history with him does.
Just a simple feel of the play at the time.
Since it hasn't been said over and over let me say it again. He comes in and just places a vote. Adds nothing to it and doesn't mention Gigas.
No. I can't see him as town coming in and voting someone and then sitting back. Saying gut/hunch and the post I alluded to as playing to the town just doesn't come across as town.
Are you now telling me that this is what you where going for? Reactions?
What content?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Alright, I reread this. It's still phrased really strangely, but I think I got the gist of it.
Long story short: I made another big post to try to explain this whole thing, but I realized it resembled every other post we've had. I suspect now that you genuinely believe that you and Brinatoo did different things and that difference acquits you. I'd say you're wrong, but our purpose here is not to be right or wrong, but to find the intention, and whether or not you're right, I'm not sure anymore that you just wanted to hop on Niv's wagon in 185.
That, and, I'll be honest, I'm not thrilled with the course this wagon has taken, either; while I'm not immediately suspicious of people like Yanni, since I have them in my
idiotdifferently-abled pile, that doesn't mean I don't feel like we aren't getting anywhere. Thus, it seems only right that IUnvote
with the caveat that I'll reassess AE once I've seen him talk about people other than Brinatoo.
In that setup there was no "town" nor "mafia". Even if you haven't read the game in question the content of Ced's post followed by mine should give you a clue there might be more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I spoke as to how to weigh that performance for meta, not disregard it.
*Buzzer sound*
That is not what went through your mind. Let me show you...
...so you're pretty clearly not thinking ced has been joking around rvs style. Ced not only claimed in post 9, but supported ZasZ234's proposal. Remember? Why didn't you respond to that, btw? Particularly considering the following response from you:
If you were so concerned with fishing, why wouldn't you address ced's support for Zas' idea? You want put a damper on that sort of thing, don't you? I mean, you're obviously quite annoyed by the idea: You pounced and voted straight out of the gate, and even made a point to let folks know it was a serious vote. Even if I were to believe you saw ced's post as a joke (which it was, but you clearly weren't taking it as such), you should be preemptively plugging the hole in the dam.
Also, being concerned he was trying to flavorgame us into a lynch defies plausibility. It only takes a moment of thought to see how far down the bad paths we'd have to walk to get there. It's a remarkably Bad Idea, hence the humor in Zas' post. You would have me believe that you cannot see the facetiousness in this:
..smiley face and everything, but you could see the humor here:
Not buying it. You aren't being straight with me.
I await your response.
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LOL
No, read Niv's tone. He sounds like he wants to lynch out of frustration.
I don't know what you mean with the bad+bad=good
Kpaca is a loose town read. Already explained about Niv. I didn't lash out at Niv, that is why I posted a definition of it->not being cocky. Ridicule at iLord? with "Slip? Lol" ?! I disagree. Ridicule is much more meaningful and means I am personally belittling him. Do I think him wrong, yes. But am I calling him a moron or idiot? No, just wrong.
Insinuating? No it's there, AE wants more votes on me. And LC had described it how I read it, if I just added my bit, it would look like the weaker twin.
Totally not setting up barning.
If you look up the quote chain, you will see my explanation for ced. As for the others that I thought were town, those were loose reads at the time and not strong by any means.
They know if they are lacking it or not. I would like 10 posts with atleast something in it from everyone. That's a safe number
Guns blazin'.
Not just reactions. The content resulting from what I have posted, and what I have posted.
I'd like you to demonstrate how you came to the conclusion that DRey isn't reading, and how him not voting makes him more likely to be scum. Posts like this are just strawman.
Translation: "I don't plan on catching up because I know who the town and scum are, and it turns out that the nonentity known as Wrath_of_DoG thinks the lynchbait known as Yanni is scum, so there must be more people we can sucker into lynching him. I also want to leave myself wiggle room because I know Yanni is going to flip town."
So Burstinatrix just cemented himself as scum in my eyes, and by doing so, cleared Yanni. Which isn't to say that Yanni's failure to do anything relevant thrills me. WoD's alignment is not directly linked to Burst's, but if I'm reading this situation correctly, WoD is, more likely than not, also a dupe-to-be.
kpacastan, telling it like it is. (Though it's "undoubtedly." :teach:)
Who wants to join me and Alpha in forming a
wagonvoting bloc against Burstinatrix?so, I'm not going to be able to do it again, but I will post what I'm thinking.
Every post Brin's made in that read still strikes me as absoutly terrible.
the thing that's bugging me the most is his insistence for having content from everyone before contributing. if he honestly thinks that's valid play, then he's really awful.
seriously, if everyone were to play that way, We'd get no where, everyone would be waiting for content from everyone else, and no one would ever get content into the thread because everyone would be just waiting for content from everyone else. you have no right to just say "no content from me till I have it from everyone else" this is just hypocrytical. if you honestly belive you have this right, seriously think through what you're saying before you say it.
but really, I don't honestly think you can actually believe this, and for that, I'm incidentally still happy with my vote.
I did have things for other people too, but I don't have the time to finish that, so, hopefully I'll get back to just rewriting what I actually had another time, or, I very well may not, and just stay caught up with what's current. either way, I still think brin's terrible, and should be lynched.
-----
one thing though I'd actually like a direct answer from is pink floyd:
why do you feel the need to spam the thread and not just say "sorry busy, more later"
what you're doing now is pointless, and just says you replace out. seriously, there were like 4 posts that were nothing but spam from you. do you really just want to inflate your post count that bad?
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Read Drey's post and you can see how he isn't reading.
scumbag
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Not helpful. You're the one making the accusation; I'm not going to substantiate it for you. As Pale Mage would say, walk me through it as if I were five.
*Reading AE gives me more of a frustrated vibe than a scum one. The speed of the wagon adds to that as well. At least he's going out of his way to explain his position.
*Brin less so, but I'm not buying into that right now. Some deflecting and heavy lurking early on, but I've been gone as well, so I'm not knocking anyone right now for this being a tough time of year.
@Yanni-
I'd like to see what you're referring to as far as DRey too. Maybe I'm scrambling to catch up and missing things, but if you could build that case with what you're referring to, I'd love to see it. There's gotta be something to back an accusation like that.
Rereading to get caught up...let me know if I'm missing anything I should not be.
--->DJ
1) I don't need to reread because I've already read.
2) I'm asking for people's opinion of Yanni because I almost always think he's scum and am wondering if they think it's normal Yanni or if he's actually scum. I don't want to waste time and have scum hide behind our arguments like they normally do.
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How do these two become a dichotomy that you are certain of so suddenly?
Also, how do you describe Yanni as lynchbait and not do the same for Burst?
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When taken with his admission of painting another player as scummy (#45; note the borderline hostile tone of "pretty obvious" in his backtrack post #48), his failure to keep his facts straight (#61), his admitting to following previous scum meta (#125; I somehow missed this originally, props to Alpha for pointing it out in #141) and his inability to explain his actions in a rational and town-minded way (#134-#156), Burstinatrix's unwillingness to reread suddenly seems a lot less like bad town play and a lot more like scum trying to worm his way to an easy lynch.
Burst being scum clears Yanni. That should be apparent.
Burst can't be lynchbait in a game where he is scum. I'm sure he gets lynched as town, too. That doesn't make him town here.
Any more questions?
Why?
Again, why?
No, I don't think you understand me. Why is Yanni lynchbait, and Burst scum. Why can't they both be lynchbait or Yanni be scum?
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