I will say that Yanni seems much more concerned with arguing about his scuminess than actually lynching scum. This is especially noticable to me because Yanni's main defense is "you're making things up". Generally when people make things up in relation to me I'm less inclined to spend large amounts of time arguing with them.
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Right here Drey votes on ZasZ for what msot of assumed was an obvious joke
He asks for experience when it really doesn't matter.
It doesn't? I think it does. Or rather, could.
To me Drey is implying that he would back off depending on how much experience ZasZ had.
(To wit, ZasZ is new so he doesn't know what softclaims are...
So, Drey backs off in this case, is that what you're saying? Why does he do that?
...ZasZ is experienced so Drey assumes he knows what he's doing thus removing his number one target)
This doesn't make sense. Drey does what in this instance?
You'll have to be more clear. Are you saying Drey was going to back off regardless of Zas' answer?
and as we've clarified, experience does not matter.
I don't see that we've clarified that at all. Please tell me through how you got there with the post you quoted, and whatever else led you to that conclusion.
His tone strikes me as frustrated, which is a bad thing. I was asking others for their opinion if this strikes to them as scummy Niv. I don't know Niv.
<snip>
Basics 51-54 on this site. Replaced in Amnesia. In 3 atm. Only one on Mafiascum that I replaced into.
Thanks.
Why is frustration a bad thing? Doesn't everyone get frustrated?
Thanks. I won't need the specific game on 'scum. I'm familiar enough with the play there.
I will say that Yanni seems much more concerned with arguing about his scuminess than actually lynching scum. This is especially noticable to me because Yanni's main defense is "you're making things up". Generally when people make things up in relation to me I'm less inclined to spend large amounts of time arguing with them.
...meaning, what? When do people make things up about you?
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
There's some pressing issue that needs to be addressed by me?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So it was just a random agreement? That doesn't sound very helpful.
I'll repost your line:
This has nothing to do with your "pressure" bit. And the extent of your own "scumhunting" is one long barn of Niv's weak case on Brinatoo. Hence, hypocritical logic.
Not as much as I'd like, but it's not like he wasn't doing anything constructive, like... well, you.
Let's be clear here so we don't get into a tangle on this: I think Brinatoo's an idiot, but like many of the other idiots in this game, I don't read any malicious intention into his posts. Whereas your posts read as much less earnest and helpful.
Oh, I guess they're "exempt" because they're gibberish? So what you're saying is the difference between you and Brinatoo is that he was actually doing something?
Right, but again, you're not telling me what a) differentiates what you're doing to him now (or, for that matter, what Niv was doing) from what he was doing, or b) why what you're doing is townie behavior while his is scum behavior. You aren't addressing my concerns at all, you're just giving me the same "we're not the same because he's dumb" schtick.
Clearly. Except for the fact that that came before Niv voted for him, as I said. And again, you aren't addressing anything else I said in that paragraph you quoted.
But you're not saying why they're different, you're just telling me they are different without addressing my clear concerns with that notion.
The bolded bit is some clever doublespeak. "I wouldn't say someone's a pedophile, but it does appear Mr. Smith loves to have sex with children."
Your theory is so simplistic and not supported at all in evidence; nor are you addressing any of my real concerns either with that conclusion or your behavior. I feel confident now that I'm on the right track.
Vote Archmage Eternal
While I still agree with the Brinatoo vote at this point, I find your attack on AE very sound. all of your logic makes sense.
8 minutes? To read through me and Niv, and Brinatoos responses? I call bull****.
how you open your post here strkies me as incredibly terrible. I can't even force myself to read the rest of the post after you make this baseless attack.
One of? All the people he mentioned? One of those FIVE who each have been under some pressure so far today (perhaps excluding Yanni)? What a mighty thick limb you went out on there.
While we're on the subject...why do you guarantee one of them are scum if Asian is?
So now your jumping on a new point and leaving behind the "double speak"
This isn't the first time you've done this.
You asked me to explain my vote on Drey and I did, then you left that point for the Double Speak one.
AI is looking for anything that sticks.
List of things AI has tried to use against me.
1. Weak vote on Drey
2. Double Speak
3. Wagon Hopping
4. Weak Meta Case
All lack explinations.
I actually agree with what's posted here. the number of diffrent things he's gon after you for is odd. everytime you debunk one of his attacks, he just finds something else. not sure what to think of this though.
I will say that Yanni seems much more concerned with arguing about his scuminess than actually lynching scum. This is especially noticable to me because Yanni's main defense is "you're making things up". Generally when people make things up in relation to me I'm less inclined to spend large amounts of time arguing with them.
i don't see how this is relivant with regards to yanni though? you're just saying it's not how you'd do it, which is completly irellivant to how yanni's doing it.
so, in conclusion, I'm still on the Brinatoo wagon, cause I still believe in my initial reasoning, and that the exchanges we had only made him look worse.
However, AE's support for the wagon is suspect. he really seams of in the latter stages of his discussion supporting the wagon.
also, while I understand that the holiday's were in full swing, the sheer amount of nothing posting that's been going on is frustrating to say the least.
So, Drey backs off in this case, is that what you're saying? Why does he do that?
This doesn't make sense. Drey does what in this instance?
You'll have to be more clear. Are you saying Drey was going to back off regardless of Zas' answer?
I don't see that we've clarified that at all. Please tell me through how you got there with the post you quoted, and whatever else led you to that conclusion.
Thanks.
Why is frustration a bad thing? Doesn't everyone get frustrated?
Thanks. I won't need the specific game on 'scum. I'm familiar enough with the play there.
AE is town?
Looking forward to it.
No opinion on anything you've read so far?
...meaning, what? When do people make things up about you?
I'm saying that Drey backing off based on ZasZ's experience is what bothered me.
Expereince doesn't really matter in this case because if ZasZ is doing something scummy, than it's scummy no matter what his experience level.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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I don't see where this is coming from at all. I read nothing about wavering in his post.
Covered this......Me, not Yanni.
how you open your post here strkies me as incredibly terrible. I can't even force myself to read the rest of the post after you make this baseless attack.
This hurts me. But its nice that you don't go on seeing how the rest is a response to the attack you find sound and logical from Brinatoo.
However, AE's support for the wagon is suspect. he really seams of in the latter stages of his discussion supporting the wagon.
This case resonates with me, actually. AE's vote looks opportunistic and his case is weak. He's also much more single-minded than I remember him being in previous games.
Nope, thats what I do. I see scum I find no reason to ignore him. I've had tunnelvision thrown my way plenty of times so...
Stupid was you calling me impatient. when you post a useless posts, and I tell you their useless and ask for a little more than an unexplained baseless vote. there is nothing impatient about that. as for scummy, the baseless linking of me to Gigas, that's incredibly bad. you just declared that I was now linked to him, beacuse I called out your terrible post voting him.
Okay. And Gigas has disappeared... so I can't do anything anyway.
I don't quite like the rest of your post here either. you provide basically nothing with regards to your case on Gigas, and provide mostly adhom responses to the case on you. at this point, I'm happy with my vote.
I don't like you not liking my response here, either.
ok, great, you're ignoreing the fact that you're vote was terrible, and you've ignored the fact that I've claimed that i would have Called you out no matter who you voted, had your post voting gigas voted for burst, or DRay, I'd have called you out exactally the same.
Look. I wanted to get something out of Gigas. He has since fallen off the map. I expect content from him soon, or I am confident I was gut-right.
Thanks.
Why is frustration a bad thing? Doesn't everyone get frustrated?
Thanks. I won't need the specific game on 'scum. I'm familiar enough with the play there.
8 minutes? To read through me and Niv, and Brinatoos responses? I call bull****.
how you open your post here strkies me as incredibly terrible. I can't even force myself to read the rest of the post after you make this baseless attack.
How was that baseless? Eight minutes is not a lot of time.
Quote from Ced »
This case resonates with me, actually. AE's vote looks opportunistic and his case is weak. He's also much more single-minded than I remember him being in previous games.
Vote Archmage Eternal
You don't remember any games with scumAE?
Ironically, this vote seems a lot more opportunistic than AE's. The second sentence feels especially tacked on.
Quote from Brinatoo »
Towny one.
If you are scum, great job
unvote
I am down for an AE lynch. LC described it very nicely. vote Archmage Eternal
Blatant buddying with ced and so eager to jump on anyone that's not him. This kid's scum.
Quote from kpaca »
Wow I'd kinda like to lynch Yanni or Brinatoo if AE flipped town.
Voting Brinatoo is what all the cool kids are doing.
Not sure about AE (he's always scummy :sweat:) neither brinatoo (newbie), the one thing I'm sure is that this liquid guy is scum and I will not be voting on who he's voting anytime soon.
unvote, vote: Liquid
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Hi everybody. Sorry I disappeared like that - I was out of town for a funeral and had minimal internet access. I'll try to get caught up pretty quickly now.
he's making an arguement based on how quickly Yanni can read. please, iLord, tell me how it's possible for anyone on this fourm can can make that assessment?
Please, Asian, tell me where his posts are thick with doublespeak, and also explain to me why Yanni's wagonhopping equals not making any analyses.
I had his posts multi-quoted for easy PBPA construction only for my router to decide to reset, forcing a Firefox reboot, and I haven't felt like redoing the work since. Maybe after work tomorrow.
The Archmage Eternal wagon is scary fast, practically guaranteeing that there is scum on it (either pushing for an easy mislynch or aggressive bus). Why bother? He's just going to get killed by the vig/SK if he's scum, anyway.
Not currently. I'm still waiting on Burstinatrix's "solid post."
I had his posts multi-quoted for easy PBPA construction only for my router to decide to reset, forcing a Firefox reboot, and I haven't felt like redoing the work since. Maybe after work tomorrow.
The Archmage Eternal wagon is scary fast, practically guaranteeing that there is scum on it (either pushing for an easy mislynch or aggressive bus). Why bother? He's just going to get killed by the vig/SK if he's scum, anyway.
Way to respond to my destruction of your weak case.
Wessel look at the line about the vote and you'll see why I'm voting Archmage
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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Way to respond to my destruction of your weak case.
I am going to respond to your failure to read by reciprocally ignoring you from now on until you learn some manners. If you don't like that, you can eat a vig shot.
he's making an arguement based on how quickly Yanni can read. please, iLord, tell me how it's possible for anyone on this fourm can can make that assessment?
There's a significant volume of the Brinatoo discussion scattered intermittently through the thread. Simply scanning over it in eight minutes may be possible, but actually reading and considering it within the same time span indicates, at best, a certain cursory haste.
Any particular reason or just because he posted a decent case?
He was already my top suspect from before holidays and while I confess I haven't been paying attention to the game, the speed of AE wagon, the knowledge I have of him and the quantity of scummy guys on his wagon just solidifies my early read of liquidity and clear AE.
The Archmage Eternal wagon is scary fast, practically guaranteeing that there is scum on it (either pushing for an easy mislynch or aggressive bus). Why bother? He's just going to get killed by the vig/SK if he's scum, anyway.
That's terrible, looks like you are setting for an AE (mis)lynch some time later "hey guys, AE is still alive, that means he's scum". If AE really flips town, you will have some explanation to do.
I am going to respond to your failure to read by reciprocally ignoring you from now on until you learn some manners. If you don't like that, you can eat a vig shot.
Are you claiming vig? unvote
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
That's terrible, looks like you are setting for an AE (mis)lynch some time later "hey guys, AE is still alive, that means he's scum". If AE really flips town, you will have some explanation to do.
There's a significant volume of the Brinatoo discussion scattered intermittently through the thread. Simply scanning over it in eight minutes may be possible, but actually reading and considering it within the same time span indicates, at best, a certain cursory haste.
That's terrible, looks like you are setting for an AE (mis)lynch some time later "hey guys, AE is still alive, that means he's scum". If AE really flips town, you will have some explanation to do.
You are terrible at detecting silliness.
Looking at the five votes currently on Archmage Eternal, I don't see a single one that I feel comfortable is from town, and the last two I actively suspect of being scum. This only cements my read that there is some serious fishiness to this whole affair.
If your town your doing a horrible job. Your trying to turn everything I say into scummy form.
See, this is exactly the kind of thing a townie wouldn't say. It's an attempt to get me off the wagon by making me look scummy to other players to discredit my case. Indeed, it's the very same thing you accused Brinatoo of doing.
Boy your reaching.
Yes it does. He says the best thing early is pressure. Something he's not doing.
You can try and smear me all you want. Call me out for my lack of scumhunting. I hadn't started the game, of course there will be no posts worth any value.
And again.
Let's be clear here: I don't care about the whole "pressure" bit. Yes, Brinatoo's an idiot (uniquely, in this case, not just generically noobish) - post #175 doesn't make any sense. But I've already said that I think Brinatoo's just a noob who makes bad arguments, and that his behavior is inconsistent with scum motivations.
Now stop dodging behind the whole "pressure" bit. Yes, you're applying pressure, but what I care about is how substantive you are. And the point is that post was the entire extent of your scumhunting (and was just a mix of barns on Niv), and that post was based on blaming another player for not scumhunting. Hence, you're a hypocrite.
I mean, seriously, look at the line itself:
He can point out people not providing content, how about some scumhunting?
That's you! That describes you!
Yeah call me out on posts I didn't have, thats a good one. What was constructive about his voting Gigas on gut and not following up with pressure?
Deflection. We're not talking about Brinatoo, we're talking about you.
Your good. It was a question not a statement.
You're kidding, right?
Right. Random nothings. Point out to me what Brinatoo was doing.
Deflection. We're not talking about Brinatoo, we're talking about you.
I'm not saying he's scum on gut, placing my vote on him and then ignoring him. I've continued to post and not ignore things. Your the one stuck on this "dumb" thing not me.
Then answer my question. I've claimed you two are one and the same, and your accusations against him make you a hypocrite with scummy intentions. Where am I wrong, specifically?
Who cares if it came before Niv voted him. It means nothing. He's worried about the town as a whole. Discredit Niv in thier eyes so he won't be pressured by them.
Could you explain this to me? It's confusingly worded.
These posts are becoming walls. What are your concerns? Break them down.
I have. They're walls because you're giving me the same set of dodges every time. Give me a straight answer.
Reaching again. I'm not painting him in a certain playstyle. I'm not familiar with him. But as you say, his two settings this game have been cruising and lashing out.
But that's exactly the point - you say you aren't painting him, but you're implying that about him. It's a classic scum strategy - upon confrontation, you can say "oh, I didn't say he's X", but it was clear from the way you said it that you intended readers to draw that conclusion. Hence, doublespeak.
And the above quote does it again! You're trying to sift blame off yourself onto Brinatoo, and unlike the various noobs, I can't shake the feeling that you're acting like a trapped scum, not a panicking townie. The fact that you aren't giving me a straight answer to any of my questions doesn't help that notion.
Just to use the context of your proposed dichotomy (since I think it's very polite to call someone an idiot because of a forum game), you don't think there's such thing as idiot scum?
The way I see it, idiot scum aren't particularly dangerous, because they're idiots and prone to self-destruction if poked in the wrong way. If one of the various idiots we have lying around is scum, there's less risk in having him lying around, because it should become pretty clear if he's idiot scum versus idiot town, but right now, their high volatility makes the idiots impossible to read correctly.
So while I don't care about Brinatoo, DRey, Burstinatrix, or new inductee Yanni, that doesn't mean I'm saying they're perfectly clear; it's just that a) I've seen idiots act like them as town before enough to be pretty comfortable with them in the short term, and b) expect that if they are scum, it should be pretty easy to infer that in future days.
Day 1s are better served pursuing non-idiots whose behaviors are easier to read because they're more consistent with usual town/scum intentions, like AE. So far, I haven't read AE as an idiot because he hasn't done something as bombastically bad as the four above, though that's still something for which I'm watching.
Out of interest, though, why did you wait to vote for AE?
I have a bad habit in the past of doing big cases like that and immediately voting at the end of them without hearing the player's response. Then when that player points out some very reasonable thing I missed, I look like an idiot and have to sheepishly unvote. Besides, cases are usually only worth so much - the real value comes from a player's response to the case.
Furthermore, since AE hadn't contributed much up to that point (which was part of the point of my case in the first place), it was possible he'd do like DRey did and make a reasonable set of responses that made him look townier (not to the case, to the people around him). Scum, especially bad scum, feel more comfortable when confronted with coiling up and focusing on staying alive. So I was also looking for that. Since his post answered none of my questions, I felt like I was on the right track.
He was already my top suspect from before holidays and while I confess I haven't been paying attention to the game, the speed of AE wagon, the knowledge I have of him and the quantity of scummy guys on his wagon just solidifies my early read of liquidity and clear AE.
The blue part:
The bold part: How does Brinatoo and Yanni's (I assume they're the "scummy guys" in this case) participation reflect upon me? Did you even read my case?
Looking at the five votes currently on Archmage Eternal, I don't see a single one that I feel comfortable is from town, and the last two I actively suspect of being scum. This only cements my read that there is some serious fishiness to this whole affair.
The bold part: How does Brinatoo and Yanni's (I assume they're the "scummy guys" in this case) participation reflect upon me? Did you even read my case?
Same question to you.
I suppose you get a little town cred for starting the wagon in the first place, but I don't have a strong town read on you, unlike iLord and Niv. I am reminded suddenly of the Day One wagon on (town) Archmage Eternal in Goo Mafia, which worries me.
@Arty: On that note, why are you voting him, exactly?
I thought AE was scum because of some of the things I saw him saying and doing to encourage the Brinatoo wagon.
I have a town/easy target read on Brinatoo.
Then Yanni hopped on the wagon. Basically I saw it as scummy. Also, I can't remember Yanni ever going out of his way to call someone idiot town quite so vocally. He seems to be reacting differently to Burstinatrix in this game than I've seen.
why did you cross out the part in wihch you vote AE, then vote me? seems like a waste of time
What does the bolded even mean?
And to express a point. I had typed up the line without the strikethrough, and realized what that probably meant. Call it a "stream of consciousness" edit.
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I thought AE was scum because of some of the things I saw him saying and doing to encourage the Brinatoo wagon.
I have a town/easy target read on Brinatoo.
Then Yanni hopped on the wagon. Basically I saw it as scummy. Also, I can't remember Yanni ever going out of his way to call someone idiot town quite so vocally. He seems to be reacting differently to Burstinatrix in this game than I've seen.
What does the bolded even mean?
And to express a point. I had typed up the line without the strikethrough, and realized what that probably meant. Call it a "stream of consciousness" edit.
why didn't you just delete it like a normal person
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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Not off the top of my head, no.
EWP: Upon researching, the only games which I could find where I have played with scum AE are Newb 26 (his first game over 3 years ago, which hardly counts for that reason), and Fahrenheit 451, where I think he thought he wasn't scum (I'm sure you remember how that game worked :P). I'll have a look at some other ones sometime.
Your original post:
Quote from ced395 »
This case resonates with me, actually. AE's vote looks opportunistic and his case is weak. He's also much more single-minded than I remember him being in previous games.
Vote Archmage Eternal
How is the bolded indicative of scumAE? Different from past play doesn't imply scum play.
Quote from ced395 »
I disagree. AE comes in and attacks a somewhat vunerable player (Brinatoo, getting attention for his responses to Niv), with a really shaky accusation about scumhunting (brinatoo is obviously a newb and has also placed a vote and given some opinions). Also, AE's assertion that he is tunnel-visioned doesn't really mesh with the fact that he made the case about Brinatoo's lack of content when he [AE] hadn't yet got around to posting before he made the vote.
Somehow, I don't think a case based on coasting would convince me if it was levelled before I made any serious posts. Why has it done so with AE?
I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say in the bolded area and getting lost somewhere in the middle. Could you rephrase it?
As for AE picking Brinatoo, I think it's more likely the rereading effect: when you're catching up, you're more inclined to focus on what everyone else is focusing on. I don't think his continued "tunnel vision" on Brinatoo is that unusual either. After all, you have to start somewhere, and after you start coming under fire, it's hard to find the motivation to find additional suspects while staving off your attackers. An attempt to get an easy lynch on Brinatoo does not look like what AE is doing here.
On the other hand, from my experience, AE is a very easy lynch target, which makes the wagon on him seem a lot more opportunistic.
See, this is exactly the kind of thing a townie wouldn't say. It's an attempt to get me off the wagon by making me look scummy to other players to discredit my case. Indeed, it's the very same thing you accused Brinatoo of doing.
No. Not trying to make you look scummy. Trying to make you take a step back and reevaluate.
Now stop dodging behind the whole "pressure" bit. Yes, you're applying pressure, but what I care about is how substantive you are. And the point is that post was the entire extent of your scumhunting (and was just a mix of barns on Niv), and that post was based on blaming another player for not scumhunting. Hence, you're a hypocrite.
I can see your point of being a hypocrite. My point is he made a point about applying pressure but ignored his scum suspect and called others out for lack of content. I came in and called him on it and have since posted relative content, not fluff as he has done. Based on that I don't agree with your take on being a hypocrite.
Deflection. We're not talking about Brinatoo, we're talking about you.
Talking about me in regards to Brinatoo. So we're tied. Not a deflection.
Then answer my question. I've claimed you two are one and the same, and your accusations against him make you a hypocrite with scummy intentions. Where am I wrong, specifically?
OK wait. Did I come in and say he's scum because my gut tells me? Did I say early pressure is good and vote? Then post fluff and ignore my suspect? No. I came in called him on trying to cruise through the day.(Getting on a wagon just to get on it. Not scumhunting/posting fluff). Continued to talk about him and my actions.
And the above quote does it again! You're trying to sift blame off yourself onto Brinatoo, and unlike the various noobs, I can't shake the feeling that you're acting like a trapped scum, not a panicking townie. The fact that you aren't giving me a straight answer to any of my questions doesn't help that notion.
How am I sifting blame? I'm calling him scum and giving reasons. Your trying to pin those same reasons onto me which doesn't add up. I'm giving you straight answers. You just don't like them so your spining them.
I disagree. AE comes in and attacks a somewhat vunerable player (Brinatoo, getting attention for his responses to Niv), with a really shaky accusation about scumhunting (brinatoo is obviously a newb and has also placed a vote and given some opinions).
Also, AE's assertion that he is tunnel-visioned doesn't really mesh with the fact that he made the case about Brinatoo's lack of content when he [AE] hadn't yet got around to posting before he made the vote.
Somehow, I don't think a case based on coasting would convince me if it was levelled before I made any serious posts. Why has it done so with AE?
What? First, Why is Brinatoo a vunerable player? Can you point to these opinions he had giving for his vote? I'll wait to hear your responses to ilord.
Not sure about AE (he's always scummy :sweat:) neither brinatoo (newbie), the one thing I'm sure is that this liquid guy is scum and I will not be voting on who he's voting anytime soon.
unvote, vote: Liquid
Oh, my! Such certainty! Please take me to school. Why is The Fluidic One teh scumz0rs?
At least once a game someone makes up something about why I did something and votes me for it. Right now DJC has made up a gambit.
Oh, do they? Ya know, I'd love some examples from completed games, specifically where you and your attacker were town. Frankly, if I felt someone was truly making crap up about me, I'd vote the living snot out of them until one of us was dead.
Also, you skipped a question. You said if AE says someone is scum, they usually aren't. I asked you "AE is town"? Now, since then you've voted him and such, but I'd really like you to wind back the clock and explain the comment that piqued my interest.
I could get behind an AE wagon, especially if he admits to tunnel vision. unvote: Vote AE
Why especially? Do you consider AE to be a meticulous thinker, or a fellow who normally casts his net wide?
Hi everybody. Sorry I disappeared like that - I was out of town for a funeral and had minimal internet access. I'll try to get caught up pretty quickly now.
EWP: Upon researching, the only games which I could find where I have played with scum AE are Newb 26 (his first game over 3 years ago, which hardly counts for that reason), and Fahrenheit 451, where I think he thought he wasn't scum (I'm sure you remember how that game worked :P). I'll have a look at some other ones sometime.
He did not behave as Town, so whether or not he believed he was mafia isn't relevant, despite the weirdness of that setup.
Where in post 312 did he admit to tunnel vision? I can see he says he is often accused of tunnel vision for the reason that he zeroes in on scum, but that doesn't equal him admitting to tunnel vision. It's more setting up a WIFOM argument on the part of AE. You're better than this, kpaca.
Any particular reason why not to include ced?
I mean the wording of post 312 is a clear admission to tunnel visioning, I'm not sure how you want me to explain it unless you want me to break down the meanings of each part of his sentence.
I am going to respond to your failure to read by reciprocally ignoring you from now on until you learn some manners. If you don't like that, you can eat a vig shot.
Oh, do they? Ya know, I'd love some examples from completed games, specifically where you and your attacker were town. Frankly, if I felt someone was truly making crap up about me, I'd vote the living snot out of them until one of us was dead.
Also, you skipped a question. You said if AE says someone is scum, they usually aren't. I asked you "AE is town"? Now, since then you've voted him and such, but I'd really like you to wind back the clock and explain the comment that piqued my interest.
It depends on the level of crap being made up. Whenever someone makes up crap about my intentions, and it's clear they don't have any actual logical backing, I tend to just tune them out. Could I find this in some past games? For sure. Am I? No, not unless it becomes a pressing issue. I have a hard enough time remembering what's going on in active games I'm in, much less remember minutia of games long past. If I could think of a recent one I'd go get it, but I can't. I suppose if I complete a game soon with that sort of issue, I'll quote it in here as soon as the game ends.
For your second question: Usually I find that when AE says someone is scum, they are town. I do not trust his reads to be accurate one bit. It wasn't me pinging his alignment, as if he's scum his reads are purposefully wrong, but that doesn't mean he's anymore correct as town. It was more me saying I wasn't willing to bite at the wagon AE was trying to fish with.
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You aren't able to read the 19 other players in the game? Weak sauce cop-out.
I don't know what cop-out means. And as far as for the 19 other players, some have barely posted and I would like a "okay" amount from everyone.
Assuming you're on the level for a moment, even if you are gut-right, there are other scum to hunt, yes?
Yes, and we shall get to that!
I'm fairly certain this doesn't address my question. We'll come back to this later, unless you'd like to clarify/elaborate.
"Why is frustration a bad thing?" When I am frustrated, I am not calm. When I'm not calm, I act impulsively which can be a bad thing. I could go into detail but I don't think I have to. Frustration is generally a bad thing. "Doesn't everyone get frustrated?" Don't you?
I think I'd like to hear the case again in your own words, actually.
AE jumped on my wagon for reasons that he himself was doing. He has flung mud at me, saying I haven't posted content, lashed out at Niv (which I still disagree on it being considered lashing out) and tried to push this wagon for loose reasons. I'd go more in-depth but LC laid out much of what I see.
"Worst scumbuddy pat on the back ever." Let me say it again. If you were to analyze my content in this game any more thoroughly, I would think that you couldn't think me any more sure of yourself that I was scum and how you are dead wrong.
AE jumped on my wagon for reasons that he himself was doing.
This is so wrong and people are just clinging to it as hard as they can. At the time I wasn't doing anything. I just started. At the time Brinatoo was playing. Had a vote down. There is a major difference.
I don't let mafia frustrate me either but this crap is pissing me off!
It doesn't? I think it does. Or rather, could.
So, Drey backs off in this case, is that what you're saying? Why does he do that?
This doesn't make sense. Drey does what in this instance?
You'll have to be more clear. Are you saying Drey was going to back off regardless of Zas' answer?
I don't see that we've clarified that at all. Please tell me through how you got there with the post you quoted, and whatever else led you to that conclusion.
Thanks.
Why is frustration a bad thing? Doesn't everyone get frustrated?
Thanks. I won't need the specific game on 'scum. I'm familiar enough with the play there.
AE is town?
Looking forward to it.
No opinion on anything you've read so far?
...meaning, what? When do people make things up about you?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
umm, go figure it out for yourself. maybe remember what your posts looked like.
helpful........
Helpful.......
I don't see where this is coming from at all. I read nothing about wavering in his post.
While I still agree with the Brinatoo vote at this point, I find your attack on AE very sound. all of your logic makes sense.
how you open your post here strkies me as incredibly terrible. I can't even force myself to read the rest of the post after you make this baseless attack.
Nice catch. I never thought of it like that.
What a HELPFUL post. like, so helpful.....
I actually agree with what's posted here. the number of diffrent things he's gon after you for is odd. everytime you debunk one of his attacks, he just finds something else. not sure what to think of this though.
Personally I tend to view both of these things as scummy, but I guess i see where you're coming from then.
i don't see how this is relivant with regards to yanni though? you're just saying it's not how you'd do it, which is completly irellivant to how yanni's doing it.
the amount of "helping" is asonishing.
-----
so, in conclusion, I'm still on the Brinatoo wagon, cause I still believe in my initial reasoning, and that the exchanges we had only made him look worse.
However, AE's support for the wagon is suspect. he really seams of in the latter stages of his discussion supporting the wagon.
also, while I understand that the holiday's were in full swing, the sheer amount of nothing posting that's been going on is frustrating to say the least.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
I'm saying that Drey backing off based on ZasZ's experience is what bothered me.
Expereince doesn't really matter in this case because if ZasZ is doing something scummy, than it's scummy no matter what his experience level.
scumbag
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Thank you, it did get Yanni posting.
Covered this......Me, not Yanni.
This hurts me. But its nice that you don't go on seeing how the rest is a response to the attack you find sound and logical from Brinatoo.
I do support it, I'm voting him.
Nope, thats what I do. I see scum I find no reason to ignore him. I've had tunnelvision thrown my way plenty of times so...
They hate us cause they ain't us.
At least once a game someone makes up something about why I did something and votes me for it. Right now DJC has made up a gambit.
I could get behind an AE wagon, especially if he admits to tunnel vision. unvote: Vote AE
I tunnel vision. Vote away!
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Okay. And Gigas has disappeared... so I can't do anything anyway.
I don't like you not liking my response here, either.
Look. I wanted to get something out of Gigas. He has since fallen off the map. I expect content from him soon, or I am confident I was gut-right.
Reread it.
Because you are voting me for loose reasons.
Makes me think him town.
It doesn't? I can't even think of how you got your line of thinking to right here.
I guess discrediting and explaining the truth are one in the same nowadays?
It's there, and you have broken it down too. So no, I won't.
How?
Tunnel-visioning is bound to happen.
Towny one.
If you are scum, great job
unvote
I am down for an AE lynch. LC described it very nicely. vote Archmage Eternal
well I've never seen Archmage admit this as town, also never seen him do it as scum
(I know, weak meta)
voting bloc go
unvote, vote: Archmage Eternal
Post tomorrow or Wednesday will answer your question.
scumbag
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How was that baseless? Eight minutes is not a lot of time.
You don't remember any games with scumAE?
Ironically, this vote seems a lot more opportunistic than AE's. The second sentence feels especially tacked on.
Blatant buddying with ced and so eager to jump on anyone that's not him. This kid's scum.
Voting Brinatoo is what all the cool kids are doing.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
unvote, vote: Liquid
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Not currently. I'm still waiting on Burstinatrix's "solid post."
I had his posts multi-quoted for easy PBPA construction only for my router to decide to reset, forcing a Firefox reboot, and I haven't felt like redoing the work since. Maybe after work tomorrow.
The Archmage Eternal wagon is scary fast, practically guaranteeing that there is scum on it (either pushing for an easy mislynch or aggressive bus). Why bother? He's just going to get killed by the vig/SK if he's scum, anyway.
Way to respond to my destruction of your weak case.
Wessel look at the line about the vote and you'll see why I'm voting Archmage
scumbag
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I am going to respond to your failure to read by reciprocally ignoring you from now on until you learn some manners. If you don't like that, you can eat a vig shot.
I'm shaking in my boots AI. You don't need to resort to "I'LL SHOOT YOU" just because I destroyed your terrible case against me.
scumbag
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Sorry all...back late and reading to catch up.
Where did the AE wagon come from?
--->DJ
Votecount:
AE (5) - Liquidity Crisis, ced, kpaca, Brinatoo, Yanni
Brinatoo (4) - Niv, AE, iLord, vezokBurst (2) - Alpha, Asian
Liquidity Crisis (2) - Gigas, DRey
ZasZ (1) - pinkfloyd
Wessel (1) - WoD
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.
The Aeon Clock stands at 4.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
There's a significant volume of the Brinatoo discussion scattered intermittently through the thread. Simply scanning over it in eight minutes may be possible, but actually reading and considering it within the same time span indicates, at best, a certain cursory haste.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
That's terrible, looks like you are setting for an AE (mis)lynch some time later "hey guys, AE is still alive, that means he's scum". If AE really flips town, you will have some explanation to do.
Are you claiming vig? unvote
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You are terrible at detecting silliness.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
It's almost as if the guy's scum or something.
I'd love to go on this fishing expedition with you, but I can't find my favorite ascot.
Looking at the five votes currently on Archmage Eternal, I don't see a single one that I feel comfortable is from town, and the last two I actively suspect of being scum. This only cements my read that there is some serious fishiness to this whole affair.
See, this is exactly the kind of thing a townie wouldn't say. It's an attempt to get me off the wagon by making me look scummy to other players to discredit my case. Indeed, it's the very same thing you accused Brinatoo of doing.
And again.
Let's be clear here: I don't care about the whole "pressure" bit. Yes, Brinatoo's an idiot (uniquely, in this case, not just generically noobish) - post #175 doesn't make any sense. But I've already said that I think Brinatoo's just a noob who makes bad arguments, and that his behavior is inconsistent with scum motivations.
Now stop dodging behind the whole "pressure" bit. Yes, you're applying pressure, but what I care about is how substantive you are. And the point is that post was the entire extent of your scumhunting (and was just a mix of barns on Niv), and that post was based on blaming another player for not scumhunting. Hence, you're a hypocrite.
I mean, seriously, look at the line itself:
That's you! That describes you!
Deflection. We're not talking about Brinatoo, we're talking about you.
You're kidding, right?
Deflection. We're not talking about Brinatoo, we're talking about you.
Then answer my question. I've claimed you two are one and the same, and your accusations against him make you a hypocrite with scummy intentions. Where am I wrong, specifically?
Could you explain this to me? It's confusingly worded.
I have. They're walls because you're giving me the same set of dodges every time. Give me a straight answer.
But that's exactly the point - you say you aren't painting him, but you're implying that about him. It's a classic scum strategy - upon confrontation, you can say "oh, I didn't say he's X", but it was clear from the way you said it that you intended readers to draw that conclusion. Hence, doublespeak.
And the above quote does it again! You're trying to sift blame off yourself onto Brinatoo, and unlike the various noobs, I can't shake the feeling that you're acting like a trapped scum, not a panicking townie. The fact that you aren't giving me a straight answer to any of my questions doesn't help that notion.
The way I see it, idiot scum aren't particularly dangerous, because they're idiots and prone to self-destruction if poked in the wrong way. If one of the various idiots we have lying around is scum, there's less risk in having him lying around, because it should become pretty clear if he's idiot scum versus idiot town, but right now, their high volatility makes the idiots impossible to read correctly.
So while I don't care about Brinatoo, DRey, Burstinatrix, or new inductee Yanni, that doesn't mean I'm saying they're perfectly clear; it's just that a) I've seen idiots act like them as town before enough to be pretty comfortable with them in the short term, and b) expect that if they are scum, it should be pretty easy to infer that in future days.
Day 1s are better served pursuing non-idiots whose behaviors are easier to read because they're more consistent with usual town/scum intentions, like AE. So far, I haven't read AE as an idiot because he hasn't done something as bombastically bad as the four above, though that's still something for which I'm watching.
Why are you choosing to not be clear when its such a simple question?
Vote AE although I could likely be convinced to vote Yanni instead.Nah, lets just cut to the meat of it:Unvote; Vote Yanni
That makes sense to me, given the layers of moves going on here.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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I have a bad habit in the past of doing big cases like that and immediately voting at the end of them without hearing the player's response. Then when that player points out some very reasonable thing I missed, I look like an idiot and have to sheepishly unvote. Besides, cases are usually only worth so much - the real value comes from a player's response to the case.
Furthermore, since AE hadn't contributed much up to that point (which was part of the point of my case in the first place), it was possible he'd do like DRey did and make a reasonable set of responses that made him look townier (not to the case, to the people around him). Scum, especially bad scum, feel more comfortable when confronted with coiling up and focusing on staying alive. So I was also looking for that. Since his post answered none of my questions, I felt like I was on the right track.
Could you explain this part?
And this.
The blue part:
The bold part: How does Brinatoo and Yanni's (I assume they're the "scummy guys" in this case) participation reflect upon me? Did you even read my case?
Same question to you.
why did you cross out the part in wihch you vote AE, then vote me?
seems like a waste of time
scumbag
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He didn't just admit to inside knowledge...did he?
I suppose you get a little town cred for starting the wagon in the first place, but I don't have a strong town read on you, unlike iLord and Niv. I am reminded suddenly of the Day One wagon on (town) Archmage Eternal in Goo Mafia, which worries me.
Why do you care? He's voting you, so he probably thinks you're scum. Oh wait, I'm supposed to be ignoring you. Move along, nothing to see here...
@Arty: On that note, why are you voting him, exactly?
Things I never read list just got bigger. Be right back.
I have a town/easy target read on Brinatoo.
Then Yanni hopped on the wagon. Basically I saw it as scummy. Also, I can't remember Yanni ever going out of his way to call someone idiot town quite so vocally. He seems to be reacting differently to Burstinatrix in this game than I've seen.
What does the bolded even mean?
And to express a point. I had typed up the line without the strikethrough, and realized what that probably meant. Call it a "stream of consciousness" edit.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
^^for clarity
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
There's that word again. EAGER. Very strong word for something that isn't the truth. As for buddying, eh? Dig?
It's a fact?
Mr. Sarcastic
I've got two now.
Lol, look any deeper and you couldn't both sure and wrong at the same time.
This game should be picking up, now that it's the new year. Looking forward to it!
why didn't you just delete it like a normal person
scumbag
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scumbag
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Your original post:
How is the bolded indicative of scumAE? Different from past play doesn't imply scum play.
I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say in the bolded area and getting lost somewhere in the middle. Could you rephrase it?
As for AE picking Brinatoo, I think it's more likely the rereading effect: when you're catching up, you're more inclined to focus on what everyone else is focusing on. I don't think his continued "tunnel vision" on Brinatoo is that unusual either. After all, you have to start somewhere, and after you start coming under fire, it's hard to find the motivation to find additional suspects while staving off your attackers. An attempt to get an easy lynch on Brinatoo does not look like what AE is doing here.
On the other hand, from my experience, AE is a very easy lynch target, which makes the wagon on him seem a lot more opportunistic.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
(The Aeon Clock has not moved and remains at 4.)
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
No. Not trying to make you look scummy. Trying to make you take a step back and reevaluate.
I can see your point of being a hypocrite. My point is he made a point about applying pressure but ignored his scum suspect and called others out for lack of content. I came in and called him on it and have since posted relative content, not fluff as he has done. Based on that I don't agree with your take on being a hypocrite.
Talking about me in regards to Brinatoo. So we're tied. Not a deflection.
OK wait. Did I come in and say he's scum because my gut tells me? Did I say early pressure is good and vote? Then post fluff and ignore my suspect? No. I came in called him on trying to cruise through the day.(Getting on a wagon just to get on it. Not scumhunting/posting fluff). Continued to talk about him and my actions.
How am I sifting blame? I'm calling him scum and giving reasons. Your trying to pin those same reasons onto me which doesn't add up. I'm giving you straight answers. You just don't like them so your spining them.
What? First, Why is Brinatoo a vunerable player? Can you point to these opinions he had giving for his vote? I'll wait to hear your responses to ilord.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Looks like I picked a bad week to try out my goth look.
@DRay
My questions are always pressing matters, sir.
Oh, my! Such certainty! Please take me to school. Why is The Fluidic One teh scumz0rs?
@Yanni
You are, at the very least, full of wrong, and possibly full of evil. We'll this back up soon, but I must press the big ol' PAUSE button for a moment.
@Kpain of the Two Chains
Oh, do they? Ya know, I'd love some examples from completed games, specifically where you and your attacker were town. Frankly, if I felt someone was truly making crap up about me, I'd vote the living snot out of them until one of us was dead.
Also, you skipped a question. You said if AE says someone is scum, they usually aren't. I asked you "AE is town"? Now, since then you've voted him and such, but I'd really like you to wind back the clock and explain the comment that piqued my interest.
Why especially? Do you consider AE to be a meticulous thinker, or a fellow who normally casts his net wide?
@Brinatoob
You aren't able to read the 19 other players in the game? Weak sauce cop-out.
Assuming you're on the level for a moment, even if you are gut-right, there are other scum to hunt, yes?
I'm fairly certain this doesn't address my question. We'll come back to this later, unless you'd like to clarify/elaborate.
I think I'd like to hear the case again in your own words, actually.
@Largely Absent People
Condolences.
Oh, I remember you now. You haven't seen Pink Floyd or Wrath of Dog anywhere, have you?
Feels like I'm missing a name. Maybe not.
He did not behave as Town, so whether or not he believed he was mafia isn't relevant, despite the weirdness of that setup.
I mean the wording of post 312 is a clear admission to tunnel visioning, I'm not sure how you want me to explain it unless you want me to break down the meanings of each part of his sentence.
LOL SLAP FIGHT!
Sure:
@The Red Part: Since AE has admitted to tunnel vision, I am more inclined to vote him. Probably could have phrased that better.
@Next Part:I will probably look at Yanni and Brinatoo much harder if AE flips town.
Man you are dead set on playing the pariah card at every turn aren't you?
It depends on the level of crap being made up. Whenever someone makes up crap about my intentions, and it's clear they don't have any actual logical backing, I tend to just tune them out. Could I find this in some past games? For sure. Am I? No, not unless it becomes a pressing issue. I have a hard enough time remembering what's going on in active games I'm in, much less remember minutia of games long past. If I could think of a recent one I'd go get it, but I can't. I suppose if I complete a game soon with that sort of issue, I'll quote it in here as soon as the game ends.
For your second question: Usually I find that when AE says someone is scum, they are town. I do not trust his reads to be accurate one bit. It wasn't me pinging his alignment, as if he's scum his reads are purposefully wrong, but that doesn't mean he's anymore correct as town. It was more me saying I wasn't willing to bite at the wagon AE was trying to fish with.
I don't know what cop-out means. And as far as for the 19 other players, some have barely posted and I would like a "okay" amount from everyone.
Yes, and we shall get to that!
"Why is frustration a bad thing?" When I am frustrated, I am not calm. When I'm not calm, I act impulsively which can be a bad thing. I could go into detail but I don't think I have to. Frustration is generally a bad thing. "Doesn't everyone get frustrated?" Don't you?
AE jumped on my wagon for reasons that he himself was doing. He has flung mud at me, saying I haven't posted content, lashed out at Niv (which I still disagree on it being considered lashing out) and tried to push this wagon for loose reasons. I'd go more in-depth but LC laid out much of what I see.
"Worst scumbuddy pat on the back ever." Let me say it again. If you were to analyze my content in this game any more thoroughly, I would think that you couldn't think me any more sure of yourself that I was scum and how you are dead wrong.
That said, I think noob town are more likely to get frustrated than noob town.
This is so wrong and people are just clinging to it as hard as they can. At the time I wasn't doing anything. I just started. At the time Brinatoo was playing. Had a vote down. There is a major difference.
I don't let mafia frustrate me either but this crap is pissing me off!
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Sorry for the prolonged absense.
--->DJ