@niv, there's was not a case. I was trying to gauge reactions from Zas, also his experience gives us plenty of information about his real intention with that post.
Explain to me why you felt a need to end the RVS stage so early, with a vote that was specifically stated as "not a RVS vote" to create a wagon to gauge reactions on a random player? it just seams very, umm, non helpful.
I know I will probably be called stupid, but I'm gonna explain my reasons already as there's too much speculation about them.
1)I don't think he was kidding at all. But while just a bad post certainly doesn't incriminate anyone, so I wanted to gauge his reaction from my instant vote.
2)His intention to me was to: try to push for a mass claim of sorts, fish for power roles and flavor game today's lynch. Terrible, just terrible.
3)I hate RVS, so I though that saying it was not an RVS vote hopefully will make people stop RVSing so the best part of mafia could start ASAP.
Ced's reaction to Zas was totally different from mine, I found it strange because Ced's a veteran player I would expect him to notice such blatant fishing.
While I'm sure it was not a joke, I wanted to see if he would backtrack on it, because had he backtracked on it he would be pretty much confirmed scum. "hahahah, it was an RVS joke, I didn't really was suggesting lynching people because of flavor gaming no."
If this was his first game I could be more lenient with him just because new players are much more prone to fish and post scummy things even as town. Knowing he's experienced makes me much more wary of him though.
umm, ok, so, explain to me how you plan to start the game. if you're the first post in a game without RVS, and no actions night one, you plan to make the first post of the game. without it, nothing would happen. it's a necessity. /endtheory
but really, there is now way you could have thought it was a serious proposal. the proposal itself was surrealist.
"vote for the person who will create the most interesting situation in the world if their element is missing."
You're honestly going to try to tell us you thought that was a serious proposal? seriously? you seams so insistent on saying that it was a serious proposal, and that there's no way it could have been a RVS joke, could you explain why, using only information you could have had Prior to post 10 in this thread. thanks.
That's a nasty question. Bad bad boy.
Were you the one people were accusing of trying to bait people into saying scummy things?
I really don't see how this is baiting at all? Gigas just voted someone for LC beacuse he's "poorley defending DRay" he's asking Gigas why he's thinking that it's scummy, and I think you're now misrepresenting things.
I don't really feel like multi-quoting right now, so I'll just generalize. If there's something someone wants me to answer that I don't cover, just let me know, and I'll gladly answer it.
@iLord stuff: The whole reason I did that was to see reactions. I tried to paint him and Wessel as scummy to see the responses. I think it's safe to say that a lot of useful discussion came (and is still coming) from it.
@Picking #2: I picked #2 because I knew it was an obvious attempt to try to give a reason for Wessel to vote me. Before that, he had no reason to, which proved it by him jumping at the opportunity to vote for me. Look back at Basic #49 where I was caught as scum when Tezz did something very similar. This is exactly the same.
@Me not defending myself well: Since when is not defending yourself well a scum tell? It's not, and it never has been.
the first two bits are explanations after the fact at this point. Really, it's trying to find a best case scenario as to why you did these things, and hoping people believe that it's the reason you did them.
and to your last point, there's a reason to defending yourself poorly, and not bothering to defend yourself. what you were doing read to me as defending yourself by saying "I'm not scum" over and over. if that's all the defending yourself you're going to do, you're not an asset to anyone. if this is all you've got, I'm happy with my vote.
That's not real coaching. I did not take that to be a serious statement at all, and knowing Kpaca and his usual game, I didn't honestly believe he thought this was coaching either. If he did, he sure as hell wouldn't have pointed it out like that.
As for "looking for more from Zaz"...as I said, I didn;t think that was coaching, so I wanted more content to get a read. At this point...null, but he does happen to be the only real active topic.
And the fence-sitting is now explained
I can see that being a possible explanation. upon rereading, I guess that could have been sarcastic. on a general, sarcasm on the Internet rarely works. thinking that people will all see your sarcasm is crazy.
I think me elaborating is not something in the interest of the game - otherwise I would have done so back then.
You could pretend you have and use FoS: <playername1>, <playername2>, <playername3> in your next post.
Actually I'm hereby asking you to go on record with the three names and state whether your opinion changed since the quoted moment in time.
I disagree. Actually, I find your assertion completely ridiculous.
I think it's pretty clear who you're referring to in #20, but I'd like for you to commit all the same. I would also be most interested in an explanation of why you felt that you should still remain ambiguous at this juncture. It's fairly clear from your comments towards AI that you understand the importance of going "on record."
Never underestimate human stupidity! I lost a game due to not giving a scum (Serial Killer) the chance to be stupid - not doing it again.
I think I'm committed. Not every individual may see it, but I can't fool the player base as a whole.
I now have to weigh between ced395's request and yours - and since one of the two possible actions is irrevocable I'll decline for now.
AsianInvasion may decide to deny my request and take the consequences, but would then be under scrutiny. I *am* under scrutiny thanks to you.
Do you really need what you request? Right now? Or is it enough that we both are on the record with these two posts of ours? Think about it! Be smart!
Holy stalling. Please substantiate your allegations of "suspicion" or retract them.
Three things.
1)what mmm means?
2)Who's giving me a pass here? I haven't even posted since yesterday. Why do you think I need to justify the "not a rvs vote" and not my vote per se?
3)Do you think you already discovered three scum so soon? Impressive, please share with us your scum list please.
1. "Mostly Mute Monk." It's a posting restriction with no relevance to the game at hand.
2. People have been ignoring you since Burstinatrix, iLord, and Wessel started hogging the spotlight. I think ignoring you is a terrible idea.
3. I supported and continue to support pressure on you, ZasZ234, and Wessel. And Burstinatrix now, too. So I guess I really need four votes.
Whew, finally finished slogging through all this fun stuff in here.
My notes on everyone else so far:
TOWN
DRey:
DRey has several instances where he notches some town points in my eyes. First is here, when he makes an important point about the weak nature of Liquidity Crisis 'clearing' him. Scum would be less likely to cut down a defender in this way.
I started out thinking that Wessel had overreacted to Burst wildly, and that colored my read of him for a while. However, as his posting continued, and Burstinatrix started to unravel, I noticed my read of Wessel changing.
In this post, for example, I personally disagreed completely that DRey was running a gambit, but the way Wessel presents his thought process, I couldn't help but feel he was being sincere in his musings.
You see another example of that in this post. Wessel outlines his entire list of grievances with Burst with such a bulldog's sense of righteous attack, that it feels completely genuine.
SCUM
Burstinatrix:
When Burstinatrix initially asked iLord why he didn't ask his question to more than just Wessel, I inwardly applauded. For I had felt iLord's question was much too accusatory considering the absurdly early stage of the game and the fact that such a small part of the player-base had even checked in. It was my assumption that Burstinatrix sensed this as well and was trying to figure out why.
However, through 100 or so more posts, Burst failed to make this point for some reason, which puzzled me, before he completely melts down in this post. Coming from my initial feeling on his question, when Wessel gave him options and he picked #2, I just figured he was being a bit brusque and that it fit the real reason the closest.
But to actually assert, straight-faced, that he meant to intentionally paint someone as scum so that he could provoke a vote from Wessel is patently ridiculous.
There is no town justification for that blatant of a backpedal/lie. Unvote, Vote: Burstinatrix.
Kpaca:
Didn't really buy the coaching claim, and REALLY didn't like his lament that he was being ignored despite the fact that he he was responded to by those he accused.
@zas: yeah I saw your response to me but it was more vague speak so I just ignored you in favor of cementing my read on you in my mind
is just such a poor response.
LEANING TOWN
ZasZ234:
Has been pretty well defined by his early mass-claim joke, and the resulting DRey reaction to it. No marks in my notes leaning him one way or the other, though thinking about it, his attitude in not wanting to reveal what he saw as suspicious is more likely to be a town perspective.
DJ Catchem:
I don't remember if I've been in a game with him, but I mostly come away with a very "green" vibe from DJ Catchem.
Notably when he said that DRey/ZasZ potential coaching incident would have been the "worst scum-slip of all time". Which, of course, isn't even close to accurate.
LEANING SCUM
Liquidity Crisis:
Lots of really strange posts from this mystery player, starting with this. I readily admit I have no idea what he is trying to say.
Then there is this declaration about DRey that really only seems to make sense to me as scum who knows the target is town. There is little to no evidence in what DRey said to provoke that strong response from LC, and yet he seems so sure.
Finally, I just have this post written down as "nonsense post" in my notes.
Brinatoo:
Has a total of 2 posts, which alone means very little. But his second post sees him claim to get a scum vibe from Gigas and laying down a vote on Gigas. This, despite Gigas only having 1 non-RVS post to that point, not to mention a wealth of other dramas happening in the game. A post that shows a lack of any real scumhunting, and a clear example of not bothering to read the meat of the thread.
Initially I marked it down as bad posting when he stopped in briefly to say Burst was painting things as scum, because I saw real reasons to give Burst the benefit of the doubt. Burst's complete reversal removes that bit of suspicion, however.
Just a few posts, but some things worth mentioning in this post. I would like to know his reason for +scum on Gigas and his +town on Niv.
Archmage Eternal:
Need more posts, clearly. Preferably something other than a song lyric, if possible.
Shinen:
Only one RVS-esque post.
AsianInvasion:
I didn't like his call for pressure on DRey, but mostly everything else in his recent post was fine.
Wrath_of_Dog:
One post, RVS stage.
DKD:
One post, no content.
VezokPiraka:
No content.
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
@Niv: You can't really say you're trying to presume someone before you start pressuring them, it just wouldn't work, since they know you're just trying to put pressure on them and wouldn't react the same way as if they thought it was serious. I had to make what I did look genuine to generate the discussion that was generated.
@Wessel: Me choosing not to multi-quote in that post and answer everything without multi-quotes makes me scum? Please explain.
It's more than just not willing to multi-quote. It's your selective choice of questions you want to answer. And by not answering some questions (like you fail to answer to any of the things I noted in my last post), I think you're just hoping my investigation against you will at some point just stop.
I made sure to say that if I missed something and it's pointed out I'd happily answer it. Did I miss something? If so, point it out. Sitting around saying I'm scum for not answering something I missed doesn't get us anywhere.
No, but seriously now, it's not as if my taking issue with you not multi-quoting is the only thing that makes me think you're scum. It merely strengthens my view of you being so.
You're just trying to attack me on one point, hoping that will undermine my whole case against you.
Me not multi-quoting in that post isn't scummy at all. Saying it is is grasping at straws. I covered the same things I would have of I multi-quoted, so there's nothing wrong with what I did.
Then you're blind. You haven't even answered a single question from my last big post.
No. I'm not the one grasping at straws, because next to that one point about mutli-quotes, I also have a ton of things I ask you about. That part on the multi-quote was just a minor issue, but you choose that as the only thing to counterattack me on. So you're the onegrasping at straws, for you don't even answer my real questions.
I don't need to answer questions that I've already covered. I'm not attacking you because you're saying me not multi-quoting is scummy, I'm saying that it's not scummy in the least. You must be really paranoid if you think I'm attacking you for it.
Okay, then don't enlighten us on any question or statement I've posed for example in this post.
I don't see anything I haven't already covered.
What? Ok. It was not an attack, let's change the terminology. It was a 'clarification' on your part, then? Still, you deny to 'clarify' other things posed against you.
I give up. In my view, you're either the best ever scum (in which case, I tip my hat to you), or you're the worst ever town. I doubt you're the former.
Re-read my #27 post. I'm anal about proper spelling, and I misspelled 'reunion' in the previous post. Post #27 noted that, so I re-voted as well. Straight RVS vote.
Well, I think I have given ced395 enough time - I was referring to Niv who had already been spotted. I decided to not go with a vote at the time because of ced395's advance.
The suspicion though has neither manifested itself nor disappeared due to Niv's evasive reaction.
Irony doesn't have to be brought to my attention.
This is what I meant when I said that the window for reactions to your comment had long passed.
It was pretty evident that you were talking about Niv, but by the point when you began to insist on not elaborating, he had already completely ignored your comment. How were you hoping to garner reactions from him?
Quote from Zas »
Much obliged.
I don't read Wessel out of your earlier post - at all.
Yeah, I agree with this. #56 suggests that AsianInvasion would have voted Burst, DRey, and Zas. I'm totally not seeing where the suspicion towards Wessel is coming from, especially since he's apparently on the "second level" of suspicion (as opposed to Gigas and Brinatoo's).
Quote from Wessel »
I give up. In my view, you're either the best ever scum (in which case, I tip my hat to you), or you're the worst ever town. I doubt you're the former.
Quote from Yanni »
burst is just idiot town
unvote
Poor Burst.
I took the liberty of scanning over Burst's behavior under fire in his past games. Since he has only one finished scum game, the sample isn't realy reliable at all, but I've found that he almost always seems to prioritize "winning" the argument over actually trying to explain his thought process. This often leads to backtracking and inconsistencies (like that mentioned by AlphaInsidious) in both his town and scum play.
With that in mind, I agree with AlphaInsidious that the contradiction over Burst's reasons for voting me seem to indicate that he's lying about having done so purely for the sake of reactions. I am less inclined, however, to assume that he's lying with malicious intent.
I agree. not sure if you're calling Dray scum cause you think he's the one bieng coached, or cause of his terrible posting allreddy. either way, I really ho it's this easy.
.
I can't believe you honestly think Burst is dumb enough to claim a bad gambit out in the open like this. In the same way that I don't believe Drey really thought Zaz was asking for a mass claim, and I don't really think Kpaca thinks that was a coaching attempt way back there.
I'm feeling like you're baiting Burst into an argument here, and smearing him with obvious crap. No wonder he's reacting the way he is.
FoS Wessel
Well youre wrong. I do believe that was more than an attempt at coaching.
No; ignoring one's scumbuddies is a reliable tell and is asking for trouble.
Holy stalling. Please substantiate your allegations of "suspicion" or retract them.
As for my scum list, see below.
I don't believe you.
1. "Mostly Mute Monk." It's a posting restriction with no relevance to the game at hand.
2. People have been ignoring you since Burstinatrix, iLord, and Wessel started hogging the spotlight. I think ignoring you is a terrible idea.
3. I supported and continue to support pressure on you, ZasZ234, and Wessel. And Burstinatrix now, too. So I guess I really need four votes.
I went back through the thread half expecting me to find Niv having made a post back then; but here is the chronology of the first half of Niv's posts (the more recent ones are less relevant): #5 #16 #94
My reply to you, deciding to hold back for now: #77
Note that the post of mine we're talking about is #20.
I assume you made a mistake here?
My apologies - indeed it appears that was my error. For some reason, I was operating on the assumption that Niv had already ignored it.
@Niv: You can't really say you're trying to presume someone before you start pressuring them, it just wouldn't work, since they know you're just trying to put pressure on them and wouldn't react the same way as if they thought it was serious. I had to make what I did look genuine to generate the discussion that was generated.
Again, this feels like you trying to find the best explanation for what you did after you did it. like, if that was what actually happened, great, but given the context of what's all gone down, it doesn't feel like that's why you actually did what you did. it feels like you've screwed up, and you're coming up with this logic after the fact.
-----
Following the discussion you just had with Wessel, he makes a conclusion that either you're amazing scum or terrible town.
To that effect, I don't see how wessel even thinks you could be good scum. at this point, he is terrible, whether or not he's town or scum is irrelivant to his terrible, and even sorting through the terrible, I see a lot of scum that stands out.
I will get revenge for what you did on Monster Island.
I think Drey is town. I think Zas is town. I have been watching iLord closely after the third person question. I think DJC is town. I think Burst is town. I have a feeling about Gigas. I think Niv is town unless Gigas is scum, then I might rethink things, but probably not because I don't know much about Niv. And everyone else I need more content from to figure out.
Again, this feels like you trying to find the best explanation for what you did after you did it. like, if that was what actually happened, great, but given the context of what's all gone down, it doesn't feel like that's why you actually did what you did. it feels like you've screwed up, and you're coming up with this logic after the fact.
-----
Following the discussion you just had with Wessel, he makes a conclusion that either you're amazing scum or terrible town.
To that effect, I don't see how wessel even thinks you could be good scum. at this point, he is terrible, whether or not he's town or scum is irrelivant to his terrible, and even sorting through the terrible, I see a lot of scum that stands out.
I'd rather we just called the sheep AI sheep.
-----
If we're gonna wagon DRay, I'd be willing to switch my vote, but I'd still rather see the burst wagon through though.
If you and ced vote drey today I'll vote burst tomorrow.
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I also don't understand the votes on iLord. He has a point in that when players aren't commenting on the game at hand, they are more likely to be scum.
I was supporting iLord's suspicions regarding Wessel's failure to comment on the game at hand. I considered putting Wessel's name somewhere in there to prevent ambiguity, but I thought it would have been redundant and pointless. My faulty assumption.
Are we giving Burstinatrix a pass just because he has no idea what's going on? That seems terrible, considering knowing who's town and who's mafia doesn't mean one is suddenly more or less capable of understanding and responding to a line of questioning. Wessel's thought process regarding this whole situation seems pretty townie, but Burstinatrix looks worse, if anything. I am also very suspicious of Yanni for chiming in right after Wessel and unvoting Burstinatrix, only to jump onto DRey without citing any additional evidence or anything that indicates reasoning for the change, despite new posts from DRey.
with EVERYTHING that's been posted in thread, your first non RVS post, and second post overall was a useless 2 liner. you don't even say ANYTHING as to why you're getting this scum vibe? Really? you provide ABSOUTALLY NOTHING. and you're telling me I'm impatiet for wanting a little more. there is NO WAY you just saying you have a hunch helps either. you don't even have to quote posts and provide a real case, but you just saying a HUNCH without even saying I'm getting a hunch beacuse of X. it's useless.
I think Drey is town. I think Zas is town. I have been watching iLord closely after the third person question. I think DJC is town. I think Burst is town. I have a feeling about Gigas. I think Niv is town unless Gigas is scum, then I might rethink things, but probably not because I don't know much about Niv. And everyone else I need more content from to figure out.
I also don't get why me calling you out for a contentless post links me to Gigas? heck, had you voted burst, I'd have called you out EXACTALLY THE SAME.
with EVERYTHING that's been posted in thread, your first non RVS post, and second post overall was a useless 2 liner. you don't even say ANYTHING as to why you're getting this scum vibe? Really? you provide ABSOUTALLY NOTHING. and you're telling me I'm impatiet for wanting a little more. there is NO WAY you just saying you have a hunch helps either. you don't even have to quote posts and provide a real case, but you just saying a HUNCH without even saying I'm getting a hunch beacuse of X. it's useless.
I also don't get why me calling you out for a contentless post links me to Gigas? heck, had you voted burst, I'd have called you out EXACTALLY THE SAME.
I'll move it back for the time bieng, but it's still interchangeable. heck, after Brin's most recent post, i'd be willing to go for him too.
UnVote Burstinatrix, Vote DRay
@ mod Could we please get a vote count?
Holy ****. Implode. Can anyone see scum Niv doing this? I have never played with him.
Niv. There is no deadline and no need to rush bull**** lynches. I want more content FROM EVERYBODY before I can make an educated decision. Otherwise it is likely a mislynch with low interactions. The best thing to do this early on is pressuring.
Holy ****. Implode. Can anyone see scum Niv doing this? I have never played with him.
Niv. There is no deadline and no need to rush bull**** lynches. I want more content FROM EVERYBODY before I can make an educated decision. Otherwise it is likely a mislynch with low interactions. The best thing to do this early on is pressuring.
We're not asking you to make a concrete decision. We're asking you to provide content. This is text based mafia not a contest to see who can withhold the ,ost information. If I were the vig I'd blow you away tonight.
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Holy ****. Implode. Can anyone see scum Niv doing this? I have never played with him.
Niv. There is no deadline and no need to rush bull**** lynches. I want more content FROM EVERYBODY before I can make an educated decision. Otherwise it is likely a mislynch with low interactions. The best thing to do this early on is pressuring.
Explain to me how exactally you providing a contetless post is any form od pressure, and then die.
Nearly everyone BUT YOU has provided real content. I'd like you to provide some, and then die.
We're not asking you to make a concrete decision. We're asking you to provide content. This is text based mafia not a contest to see who can withhold the ,ost information. If I were the vig I'd blow you away tonight.
Explain to me how exactally you providing a contetless post is any form od pressure, and then die.
Nearly everyone BUT YOU has provided real content. I'd like you to provide some, and then die.
UnVote DRay, Vote Brinatoo
Okay three things. You don't know how I play. I can point out people that have not provided much content either. If I provide you content, will you still erupt like this? I don't like to work with people that are yelling at my face.
Okay three things. You don't know how I play. I can point out people that have not provided much content either. If I provide you content, will you still erupt like this? I don't like to work with people that are yelling at my face.
Just provide content dude. No one cares if you just vote and don't say why. I remember you doing that I the last game we were in together. It was useless than and nothing has changed now.
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Okay three things. You don't know how I play. I can point out people that have not provided much content either. If I provide you content, will you still erupt like this? I don't like to work with people that are yelling at my face.
I'll yell at you if you're ignoreing me, saying stupid things, and saying scummy things. you are doing the latter 2.
if how you play is to provide zero content and to get annoyed at people asking for it, you'll get night killed by town in every game you play, guaranteed.
100% of this players non random stage posts are terrible. Explain to me why we wouldn't?
I recently played a game with brinatoo where he was town and did the exact same thing. He is also a noob. As such your vote, while certainly somewhat substantiated, isn't that great. Compared to the other targets you've noted your brinatoo vote is relatively weak.
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Why is starting a voting bloc a bad thing? What game are you playing? What a bunch of useless charged language.
Voting bloc instead of wagon. Lol.
And then you allege I'm doing it "out in the open". Are you suggesting it would be more townie to start a wagon "behind closed doors"?
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It's not a wagon if you're not currently voting someone. It's a bloc when you sell your votes to someone else in order to receive some back.
Which incidentally is also why it's a bad thing.
I'm only questioning why no-one is batting an eyelash at the whole exchange. I didn't say a thing about "townie" or "scum" motivation.
Do you honestly believe in all of the votes you're proposing to make either on your own or in trade? Some evidence to back each up would be great.
BTDubs:
Er...now I'm confused. Do you or do you not believe that was coaching?
--->DJ
I'm not even sure what you're asking re:voting blocs but I am attempting to make a trade with my vote I'm that confidant in my read. Hence me wanting my target first.
And for the last time that was coaching. I'm not sure where your malfunction is at with that.
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I believe in my read on you, and I know you're a better player than to believe in blatant low-hanging fruit like that. You're running a gambit.
--->DJ
A read based on what? Me trying to trade my vote? Still not sure your problem with that. Also what gambit am I running? Lol I think you're a better player than this.
How does catching scum coaching equal low hanging fruit anyway?
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No...I'm not crazy about you trading your vote this early in the game. It feels off to me.
My problem is this:
Quote from Zaz »
I will dignify only one of the questions with an answer: I'm experienced. A lot.
*sings*
I have noticed something suspicious, but I'm not the only one.
I took Zaz at face value regarding level of experience, as I've never crossed paths with him. I have to assume that an experienced player wouldn't make such a colossal slip up only twenty posts into a game by making such a blatant coach right out in the open.
I *know* you're an experienced player, and i know you love to run gambits and act in very unorthodox ways. So for you to lock onto this quote as serious is *very* hard for me to believe based on what I know of you. Therefore, I believe you're up to something.
Do you believe Zaz's claim that he's an experienced player?
I think Drey is town. I think Zas is town. I have been watching iLord closely after the third person question. I think DJC is town. I think Burst is town. I have a feeling about Gigas. I think Niv is town unless Gigas is scum, then I might rethink things, but probably not because I don't know much about Niv. And everyone else I need more content from to figure out.
The bolded is a completely unnatural construction. You evidently currently think Gigas is scum, yet you decide to list Niv under the condition that he's town?
Quote from AI »
I was supporting iLord's suspicions regarding Wessel's failure to comment on the game at hand. I considered putting Wessel's name somewhere in there to prevent ambiguity, but I thought it would have been redundant and pointless. My faulty assumption.
Townie points towards AI. Scum are a lot more inclined to explicitly state their suspicions - it helps them keep their fabricated thoughts in order.
Quote from AI »
Are we giving Burstinatrix a pass just because he has no idea what's going on? That seems terrible, considering knowing who's town and who's mafia doesn't mean one is suddenly more or less capable of understanding and responding to a line of questioning. Wessel's thought process regarding this whole situation seems pretty townie, but Burstinatrix looks worse, if anything. I am also very suspicious of Yanni for chiming in right after Wessel and unvoting Burstinatrix, only to jump onto DRey without citing any additional evidence or anything that indicates reasoning for the change, despite new posts from DRey.
Vote Burstinatrix
FoS Yanni
Have you read any of Burst's games? When suspicion against Burst started to solidify, I spent some time doing so and it was most enlightening.
=================
Even considering kpaca's assertion that Brinatoo enjoys this unhelpful style regardless of alignment, I think his slip in #169 is concerning, to say the least.
Zas was coaching and also overreacted to 1 vote from Kpaca.
Unvote, vote Zas. Lets see how he reacts to 2 legit votes.
This x100000
Points to people!
+Town Kpaca
+Town Liquidity Crisis
+Town Niv
+Town Wessel
+Scum Zas
+Scum DRey
+Scum Burst
+Scum Gigas
+Scum Brin
LOL
Explain to me why you felt a need to end the RVS stage so early, with a vote that was specifically stated as "not a RVS vote" to create a wagon to gauge reactions on a random player? it just seams very, umm, non helpful.
umm, ok, so, explain to me how you plan to start the game. if you're the first post in a game without RVS, and no actions night one, you plan to make the first post of the game. without it, nothing would happen. it's a necessity. /endtheory
but really, there is now way you could have thought it was a serious proposal. the proposal itself was surrealist.
"vote for the person who will create the most interesting situation in the world if their element is missing."
You're honestly going to try to tell us you thought that was a serious proposal? seriously? you seams so insistent on saying that it was a serious proposal, and that there's no way it could have been a RVS joke, could you explain why, using only information you could have had Prior to post 10 in this thread. thanks.
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that gigas post where he votes LQ is very odd. I really don't see the logic behind it At all.
I really don't see how this is baiting at all? Gigas just voted someone for LC beacuse he's "poorley defending DRay" he's asking Gigas why he's thinking that it's scummy, and I think you're now misrepresenting things.
that's It? Really? a lot of help you are.
the first two bits are explanations after the fact at this point. Really, it's trying to find a best case scenario as to why you did these things, and hoping people believe that it's the reason you did them.
and to your last point, there's a reason to defending yourself poorly, and not bothering to defend yourself. what you were doing read to me as defending yourself by saying "I'm not scum" over and over. if that's all the defending yourself you're going to do, you're not an asset to anyone. if this is all you've got, I'm happy with my vote.
I can see that being a possible explanation. upon rereading, I guess that could have been sarcastic. on a general, sarcasm on the Internet rarely works. thinking that people will all see your sarcasm is crazy.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
No; ignoring one's scumbuddies is a reliable tell and is asking for trouble.
Holy stalling. Please substantiate your allegations of "suspicion" or retract them.
As for my scum list, see below.
I don't believe you.
1. "Mostly Mute Monk." It's a posting restriction with no relevance to the game at hand.
2. People have been ignoring you since Burstinatrix, iLord, and Wessel started hogging the spotlight. I think ignoring you is a terrible idea.
3. I supported and continue to support pressure on you, ZasZ234, and Wessel. And Burstinatrix now, too. So I guess I really need four votes.
I'm also keeping an eye on Gigas1 and Brinatoo.
Currently leaning town on iLord and Niv.
His posts. I'm not saying I'm guaranteeing he is town, just that his posts are town so far. He is given town points, not scum.
LOL
My notes on everyone else so far:
TOWN
DRey:
Burstinatrix:
Kpaca:
LEANING TOWN
ZasZ234:
Liquidity Crisis:
NULL
Niv:
I don't have time right now to shift trough everything.
I have to agree with AI that Drey seems town, but I also consider kpaca town.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
@Wessel: Me choosing not to multi-quote in that post and answer everything without multi-quotes makes me scum? Please explain.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
I made sure to say that if I missed something and it's pointed out I'd happily answer it. Did I miss something? If so, point it out. Sitting around saying I'm scum for not answering something I missed doesn't get us anywhere.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
No. I'm not going to answer questions I don't know about, though.
Me not multi-quoting in that post isn't scummy at all. Saying it is is grasping at straws. I covered the same things I would have of I multi-quoted, so there's nothing wrong with what I did.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
I don't need to answer questions that I've already covered. I'm not attacking you because you're saying me not multi-quoting is scummy, I'm saying that it's not scummy in the least. You must be really paranoid if you think I'm attacking you for it.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
I don't see anything I haven't already covered.
Why'd you call it an attack?
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
I'm confused, but okay.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
unvote
scumbag
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Re-read my #27 post. I'm anal about proper spelling, and I misspelled 'reunion' in the previous post. Post #27 noted that, so I re-voted as well. Straight RVS vote.
--->DJ
This is what I meant when I said that the window for reactions to your comment had long passed.
It was pretty evident that you were talking about Niv, but by the point when you began to insist on not elaborating, he had already completely ignored your comment. How were you hoping to garner reactions from him?
Yeah, I agree with this. #56 suggests that AsianInvasion would have voted Burst, DRey, and Zas. I'm totally not seeing where the suspicion towards Wessel is coming from, especially since he's apparently on the "second level" of suspicion (as opposed to Gigas and Brinatoo's).
Poor Burst.
I took the liberty of scanning over Burst's behavior under fire in his past games. Since he has only one finished scum game, the sample isn't realy reliable at all, but I've found that he almost always seems to prioritize "winning" the argument over actually trying to explain his thought process. This often leads to backtracking and inconsistencies (like that mentioned by AlphaInsidious) in both his town and scum play.
With that in mind, I agree with AlphaInsidious that the contradiction over Burst's reasons for voting me seem to indicate that he's lying about having done so purely for the sake of reactions. I am less inclined, however, to assume that he's lying with malicious intent.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
You are scum because Zas is scum. And what is there to elaborate on? I bolder the coaching.
The non ced players related to the ilord pressure.
Lol @ your newbie pile
I'm calling them both scum.
Well youre wrong. I do believe that was more than an attempt at coaching.
Burst is certainly his usual poor playing town self IMO.
yeah right. Do you do this in other games? If so provide empirical evidence.
Thanks for participating
Why would you even say that if you were town? You are trying so hard to fit in right now it's great. Is this your first game as scum?
Thanks for being town AI
Just as a matter of book keeping gran we call the sheep AI alpha?
My apologies - indeed it appears that was my error. For some reason, I was operating on the assumption that Niv had already ignored it.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
If you want sure.
scumbag
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Him and zas are interchangeable to me right now.
Again, this feels like you trying to find the best explanation for what you did after you did it. like, if that was what actually happened, great, but given the context of what's all gone down, it doesn't feel like that's why you actually did what you did. it feels like you've screwed up, and you're coming up with this logic after the fact.
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Following the discussion you just had with Wessel, he makes a conclusion that either you're amazing scum or terrible town.
To that effect, I don't see how wessel even thinks you could be good scum. at this point, he is terrible, whether or not he's town or scum is irrelivant to his terrible, and even sorting through the terrible, I see a lot of scum that stands out.
I'd rather we just called the sheep AI sheep.
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If we're gonna wagon DRay, I'd be willing to switch my vote, but I'd still rather see the burst wagon through though.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
A hunch. I do have thoughts, just don't know what to take of it.
Someone's impatient.
I will get revenge for what you did on Monster Island.
I think Drey is town. I think Zas is town. I have been watching iLord closely after the third person question. I think DJC is town. I think Burst is town. I have a feeling about Gigas. I think Niv is town unless Gigas is scum, then I might rethink things, but probably not because I don't know much about Niv. And everyone else I need more content from to figure out.
If you and ced vote drey today I'll vote burst tomorrow.
Call AlphaInsidious Alpha.
I get the feeling this won't be the last time we'll be having this conversation.
For reference:
I was supporting iLord's suspicions regarding Wessel's failure to comment on the game at hand. I considered putting Wessel's name somewhere in there to prevent ambiguity, but I thought it would have been redundant and pointless. My faulty assumption.
Are we giving Burstinatrix a pass just because he has no idea what's going on? That seems terrible, considering knowing who's town and who's mafia doesn't mean one is suddenly more or less capable of understanding and responding to a line of questioning. Wessel's thought process regarding this whole situation seems pretty townie, but Burstinatrix looks worse, if anything. I am also very suspicious of Yanni for chiming in right after Wessel and unvoting Burstinatrix, only to jump onto DRey without citing any additional evidence or anything that indicates reasoning for the change, despite new posts from DRey.
Vote Burstinatrix
FoS Yanni
with EVERYTHING that's been posted in thread, your first non RVS post, and second post overall was a useless 2 liner. you don't even say ANYTHING as to why you're getting this scum vibe? Really? you provide ABSOUTALLY NOTHING. and you're telling me I'm impatiet for wanting a little more. there is NO WAY you just saying you have a hunch helps either. you don't even have to quote posts and provide a real case, but you just saying a HUNCH without even saying I'm getting a hunch beacuse of X. it's useless.
I also don't get why me calling you out for a contentless post links me to Gigas? heck, had you voted burst, I'd have called you out EXACTALLY THE SAME.
I'll move it back for the time bieng, but it's still interchangeable. heck, after Brin's most recent post, i'd be willing to go for him too.
UnVote Burstinatrix, Vote DRay
@ mod Could we please get a vote count?
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Seriously, #169 is the worst post ITT.
Holy ****. Implode. Can anyone see scum Niv doing this? I have never played with him.
Niv. There is no deadline and no need to rush bull**** lynches. I want more content FROM EVERYBODY before I can make an educated decision. Otherwise it is likely a mislynch with low interactions. The best thing to do this early on is pressuring.
We're not asking you to make a concrete decision. We're asking you to provide content. This is text based mafia not a contest to see who can withhold the ,ost information. If I were the vig I'd blow you away tonight.
Explain to me how exactally you providing a contetless post is any form od pressure, and then die.
Nearly everyone BUT YOU has provided real content. I'd like you to provide some, and then die.
UnVote DRay, Vote Brinatoo
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Okay.
Okay three things. You don't know how I play. I can point out people that have not provided much content either. If I provide you content, will you still erupt like this? I don't like to work with people that are yelling at my face.
You realize we're not doing that today right?
Just provide content dude. No one cares if you just vote and don't say why. I remember you doing that I the last game we were in together. It was useless than and nothing has changed now.
ZasZ (2) - DRey, pinkfloyd
Burst (2) - Alpha, Asian
DRey (2) - Yanni, kpaca
Yanni (1) - Burst
AE (1) - Shinen
Wessel (1) - WoD
iLord (1) - ced
Liquidity Crisis (1) - Gigas
Gigas (1) - Brinatoo
Brinatoo (1) - Niv
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I was voting for iLord, but it doesn't really matter, as I'm going to unvote him now.
Unvote.
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100% of this players non random stage posts are terrible. Explain to me why we wouldn't?
I'll yell at you if you're ignoreing me, saying stupid things, and saying scummy things. you are doing the latter 2.
if how you play is to provide zero content and to get annoyed at people asking for it, you'll get night killed by town in every game you play, guaranteed.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Look at Brinatoo lashing out at Niv. He can point out people not providing content, how about some scumhunting?
You say the best thing to do this early on is pressuring. Have you applied pressure? All I see is Gigas as a hunch. Really now?
I agree with Nivs post 178
Vote Brinatoo
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I recently played a game with brinatoo where he was town and did the exact same thing. He is also a noob. As such your vote, while certainly somewhat substantiated, isn't that great. Compared to the other targets you've noted your brinatoo vote is relatively weak.
Townie points to the first person who answers something other than, "Because it's his usual game."
Heh...funny thing...I think claiming vig is also his usual game too. Weird.
--->DJ
Voting bloc instead of wagon. Lol.
And then you allege I'm doing it "out in the open". Are you suggesting it would be more townie to start a wagon "behind closed doors"?
Which incidentally is also why it's a bad thing.
I'm only questioning why no-one is batting an eyelash at the whole exchange. I didn't say a thing about "townie" or "scum" motivation.
Do you honestly believe in all of the votes you're proposing to make either on your own or in trade? Some evidence to back each up would be great.
BTDubs:
Er...now I'm confused. Do you or do you not believe that was coaching?
--->DJ
I'm not even sure what you're asking re:voting blocs but I am attempting to make a trade with my vote I'm that confidant in my read. Hence me wanting my target first.
And for the last time that was coaching. I'm not sure where your malfunction is at with that.
unvote, vote Kpaca
I believe in my read on you, and I know you're a better player than to believe in blatant low-hanging fruit like that. You're running a gambit.
--->DJ
A read based on what? Me trying to trade my vote? Still not sure your problem with that. Also what gambit am I running? Lol I think you're a better player than this.
How does catching scum coaching equal low hanging fruit anyway?
My problem is this:
I took Zaz at face value regarding level of experience, as I've never crossed paths with him. I have to assume that an experienced player wouldn't make such a colossal slip up only twenty posts into a game by making such a blatant coach right out in the open.
I *know* you're an experienced player, and i know you love to run gambits and act in very unorthodox ways. So for you to lock onto this quote as serious is *very* hard for me to believe based on what I know of you. Therefore, I believe you're up to something.
Do you believe Zaz's claim that he's an experienced player?
--->DJ
scumbag
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The bolded is a completely unnatural construction. You evidently currently think Gigas is scum, yet you decide to list Niv under the condition that he's town?
Townie points towards AI. Scum are a lot more inclined to explicitly state their suspicions - it helps them keep their fabricated thoughts in order.
Have you read any of Burst's games? When suspicion against Burst started to solidify, I spent some time doing so and it was most enlightening.
=================
Even considering kpaca's assertion that Brinatoo enjoys this unhelpful style regardless of alignment, I think his slip in #169 is concerning, to say the least.
Vote: Brinatoo
My Custom Set: Solescurio